Author Topic: Optimising the Megazord  (Read 2939 times)

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Prime32

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Optimising the Megazord
« on: June 03, 2010, 03:58:40 PM »
This was recently brought up in a thread about Dragonfire Inspiration.

If you're not familiar with the build, it centres around using the Swarmfighting feat to cram a bunch of Small creatures with complementary abilities into a single square, and essentially treating them as a single creature from then on.
Quote
Swarmfighting [General]
You and allies with this feat can coordinate melee attacks against a single target and are adept at fighting side by side in close quarters.
Prerequisite: Small size, Dex 13, base attack bonus +1
Benefit: You can occupy the same 5-foot square in combat with any other allied Small creator that also possesses the Swarmfighting feat at no penalty. When you engage a Medium or larger creature in melee, and at least one other ally with the Swarmfighting feat threatens the target, you gain a +1 morale bonus on the attack roll. This bonus increases by +1 for each additional ally beyond the first with the Swarmfighting feat that threatens the same target. The total morale bonus imparted to your attack roll cannot exceed your Dexterity bonus.
Note that there is no limit on the number of creatures you can fit into a single square.

Now what would be good candidates?
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Havok4

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Re: Optimising the Megazord
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2010, 04:01:53 PM »
One of them has to dip swordsage for the first level shadow hand stance that allows you to flank with allies as long as you both threaten the same opponent so all members of the swarm gain flanking bonuses.

Ithamar

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Re: Optimising the Megazord
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2010, 04:07:50 PM »
Jermlaine Swordsage with Shadowblade and Intuitive Attack for WIS to attack and DEX to damage.  Since all of their stats are crap except for +6 DEX & WIS, might work.  Though they are tiny, so you'd need to actually have them in the square of whatever you're attacking.

Though a thousand little rat-like Fey swarming all over someone, and punching them over and over is kind of amusing.
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Optimising the Megazord
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2010, 04:19:07 PM »
Though a thousand little rat-like Fey swarming all over someone, and punching them over and over is kind of amusing disturbing.
FTFY
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Rymosrac

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Re: Optimising the Megazord
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2010, 04:33:12 PM »
I love how a swarm of tiny ratlike fey gets equated to a megazord. Though, realistically, we don't have much to work with as far as combining massive robots into something voltron-esque in 3.5.
Shh. My common sense is tingling. . .

Daedalus

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Re: Optimising the Megazord
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2010, 04:37:46 PM »
Thrallherd believers :)

Ithamar

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Re: Optimising the Megazord
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2010, 04:45:10 PM »
Meh, I thought it was to make swarmfighting usable, not actually build a Megazord per se.  Go with Warforged Scouts then.
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snakeman830

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Re: Optimising the Megazord
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2010, 04:51:34 PM »
Meh, I thought it was to make swarmfighting usable, not actually build a Megazord per se.  Go with Warforged Scouts then.
Then set them up with a Warforged Titan.  You have minicons.
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Optimising the Megazord
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2010, 04:57:01 PM »
I love how a swarm of tiny ratlike fey gets equated to a megazord. Though, realistically, we don't have much to work with as far as combining massive robots into something voltron-esque in 3.5.
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[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

carnivore

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Re: Optimising the Megazord
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2010, 05:00:51 PM »
i was under the impression that the rule on Combat take precidence here:

from here:

http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/movement.html
Quote from: SRD
but Small Creatures take up one 5' square ..... this feat allows you to occupy a single square with another Single Small creature.. thus 2 Small sized creatures in a single square.... notice bold area:

Quote
Swarmfighting [General]
You and allies with this feat can coordinate melee attacks against a single target and are adept at fighting side by side in close quarters.
Prerequisite: Small size, Dex 13, base attack bonus +1
Benefit: You can occupy the same 5-foot square in combat with any other allied Small creature that also possesses the Swarmfighting feat at no penalty. When you engage a Medium or larger creature in melee, and at least one other ally with the Swarmfighting feat threatens the target, you gain a +1 morale bonus on the attack roll. This bonus increases by +1 for each additional ally beyond the first with the Swarmfighting feat that threatens the same target. The total morale bonus imparted to your attack roll cannot exceed your Dexterity bonus.
... notice it is refering to a "Singular Creature"... not to Creatures(Plural)

 :D


Surreal

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Re: Optimising the Megazord
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2010, 05:11:02 PM »
if you get enough of them, you could maybe use the mob template from dmg2.
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Prime32

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Re: Optimising the Megazord
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2010, 05:39:27 PM »
if you get enough of them, you could maybe use the mob template from dmg2.
Nah, mobs can't use their feats.

Is there any way for one "zord" to lift the others and fly around with them? Would it be practical to just give him very high carrying capacity and attach the others by harness?

Can a megazord ride a mount?


Phalanx Fighting is a good feat here.
Quote
Phalanx Fighting [Fighter, General]
You are trained in fighting in close formation with your allies.
Prerequisite: Proficiency with a heavy shield, base attack bonus +1
Benefit: If you are using a heavy shield and a light weapon, you gain a +1 bonus to your Armor Class. In addition, if you are within 5 feet of an ally who is also using a heavy shield and light weapon and who also has this feat, you may form a shield wall. A shield wall provides an extra +2 bonus to AC and a +1 bonus on Reflex saves to all eligible characters participating in the shield wall. For example, a single character with this feat gains a +1 bonus to his AC. If two or more characters who all know this feat are adjacent, they each gain extra +2 bonus to AC (for a total of +3) and a +1 bonus on Reflex saves.
Special: A fighter may select Phalanx Fighting as one of his fighter bonus feats.
Note that an unarmed strike is a light weapon, so all you need is a heavy shield.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 05:45:32 PM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Bauglir

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Re: Optimising the Megazord
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2010, 07:52:11 PM »
Bear in mind, they all have to take their turns separately as far as I can tell, so if your opponent moves, it will be slightly annoying as each kobold's attack will be slightly superior to the last as they cram back into the square one-by-one (or I suppose you could do some shenanigans with taking a move action and then a readied action).
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

Prime32

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Re: Optimising the Megazord
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2010, 09:37:30 PM »
Bear in mind, they all have to take their turns separately as far as I can tell, so if your opponent moves, it will be slightly annoying as each kobold's attack will be slightly superior to the last as they cram back into the square one-by-one (or I suppose you could do some shenanigans with taking a move action and then a readied action).
Or they could just Delay.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Bauglir

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Re: Optimising the Megazord
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2010, 10:35:07 PM »
Bear in mind, they all have to take their turns separately as far as I can tell, so if your opponent moves, it will be slightly annoying as each kobold's attack will be slightly superior to the last as they cram back into the square one-by-one (or I suppose you could do some shenanigans with taking a move action and then a readied action).
Or they could just Delay.

That was my first thought, too, but they need to separate their movement from their attacking, or else they end up in the same position of having to move and then attack before everyone else has moved.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

Ed-Zero

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Re: Optimising the Megazord
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2010, 11:29:38 PM »
I'm trying to think of a way that your character would actually become a swarm.. the only way I can think of via the Wendigo template and one of the raven swarms (I forgot which one).. That would make it much more feasible as you would only control 1 character while being a swarm.

snakeman830

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Re: Optimising the Megazord
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2010, 11:39:38 PM »
Well, technically, Silithar are Fine sized, playable swarms.  ECL18, but they are a playable swarm.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

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[/spoiler]

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