Author Topic: Sword and Board Tank- 3.5e  (Read 9712 times)

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Saxony

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Re: Sword and Board Tank- 3.5e
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2010, 05:52:16 PM »
Robilar's Gambit is always nice for more attacks. It's in the Player's Handbook 2. It says whenever a character with the feat is attacked, they get an Attack of Opportunity against their attacker.

It requires 12 BAB and Combat Reflexes, but that's it. (Combat Reflexes would of course be required to get multiple Attacks of Opportunity per round and use the feat well).

Very good feat for a tank. It means that things which try to kill a character with the feat die quickly. And if your friend takes feats outlined in the Tom of Battle for Dummies Handbook which make her character into a "Lockdown" or even "Crackdown" Crusader/Fighter, things the character fights will be forced to attack them (and die). Full Attacking this character would be especially suicidal.

Here's the link to the Tome of Battle for Dummies handbook which is from this forum (yay!):
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=357.msg6904#msg6904

For class suggestions:
Go a mix of Fighter and Crusader (which sounds pretty good). Taking two levels of fighter fixes the Crusader stance progression as others have mentioned. This is because 1/2 of levels in non-martial adept classes count as Initiator Levels for qualifying for having enough Initiator Levels to take high level maneuvers and stances. Because the Crusader always grants stances one level before they actually qualify for their new stances, 2 levels of anything else bumps up their Initiator Level by one and thus fixes th problem.

I'm getting off track. Go Fighter for more feats if wanted, go with more Crusader levels for more Crusader abilities and maneuvers/stances. Never, ever take an odd number of fighter levels, however. Fighters only get feats at even levels and that is the only reason to ever take levels in Figher. I would suggest at most 4 levels in Fighter. 6 or even 8 might be cool, but probably not as optimized as possible.

For a prestige class, I will again heavily recommend going all 10 levels of Eternal Blade (Tome of Battle p109). It gets maneuvers/stances as a Crusader and has access to the best martial disciplines. It's tenth level ability cannot be replicated by any other Fighter-type prestige class that I know of and is awesome. My first post describes it.
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Endarire

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Re: Sword and Board Tank- 3.5e
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2010, 08:50:06 PM »
There's also Hood if you believe 'tanking' is 'one-shotting everything in range.'
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

fuinjutsu

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Re: Sword and Board Tank- 3.5e
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2010, 11:45:36 PM »
There's also Hood if you believe 'tanking' is 'one-shotting everything in range.'

I'm seriously starting to think we could just replace you with a button that says "Hood" whenever pressed.

Who would know the difference?
Eh, the wizard have more money than them combined, he could in theory just use all his money on a fleet of trained attack mules, but then we aren't playing 3.5 but zergling rushing in Starcraft instead.

Saxony

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Re: Sword and Board Tank- 3.5e
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2010, 03:58:09 AM »
There's also Hood if you believe 'tanking' is 'one-shotting everything in range.'

I'm seriously starting to think we could just replace you with a button that says "Hood" whenever pressed.

Who would know the difference?
Endarire sometimes posts her/his ridiculously optimized builds and goes "I'm out of ideas. Have any which could improve this masterpiece?". Could a button do that? Nay. I think not.

Edit: But seriously, Endarire, if you don't put the Hood build in your signature, I will do it first and then steal your street cred by pimping it worse than you.
If I say something about real world physics, and someone disagrees, assume I am right 90% of the time. This number goes up to 100% if I am late night posting - trust me, my star dust sibs.

Endarire

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Re: Sword and Board Tank- 3.5e
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2010, 03:59:09 AM »
With a Hood, shields are optional.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

BruceLeeroy

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Re: Sword and Board Tank- 3.5e
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2010, 04:30:32 AM »
Yea, but if he plays a hood then all the other players will get jealous. It's not so much the being effective, it's the obscene numbers that are generated. Makes everyone but spellcasters feel small in the pants.

bananaphone

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Re: Sword and Board Tank- 3.5e
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2010, 04:31:44 PM »
If you are going with Robilar's Gambit, Stormguard Warrior would be a fantastic feat as well.  Although it would require at least a level of Warblade and the Ironheart Aura feat.  But that level of Warblade (depending on how you arrange your levels) could get you Iron Heart Surge, which would be great for removing status effects among other things.

JaronK

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Re: Sword and Board Tank- 3.5e
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2010, 06:00:07 PM »

fuinjutsu

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Re: Sword and Board Tank- 3.5e
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2010, 06:33:28 PM »
There's also Hood if you believe 'tanking' is 'one-shotting everything in range.'

I'm seriously starting to think we could just replace you with a button that says "Hood" whenever pressed.

Who would know the difference?
Endarire sometimes posts her/his ridiculously optimized builds and goes "I'm out of ideas. Have any which could improve this masterpiece?". Could a button do that? Nay. I think not.

Edit: But seriously, Endarire, if you don't put the Hood build in your signature, I will do it first and then steal your street cred by pimping it worse than you.

For the record, I was referencing a very popular Naruto fanfiction which mocked Shikamaru in the exact same way. "troublesome"
Eh, the wizard have more money than them combined, he could in theory just use all his money on a fleet of trained attack mules, but then we aren't playing 3.5 but zergling rushing in Starcraft instead.

veekie

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Re: Sword and Board Tank- 3.5e
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2010, 11:56:34 PM »
I doubt I could add more to this other than chime in on the Fighter 2(which you already have?)->Crusader->Eternal Blade setup being fairly good for this.
Shield Ward does helps make the board better at actually stopping an attack though.
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kinv

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Re: Sword and Board Tank- 3.5e
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2010, 01:11:43 AM »
I thought you had to be an Elf to be an eternal blade?

veekie

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Re: Sword and Board Tank- 3.5e
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2010, 01:39:29 AM »
It's a requirement that can usually be waived, but you'd have to talk with your DM.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Saxony

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Re: Sword and Board Tank- 3.5e
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2010, 08:45:26 AM »
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1532.0;wap2

This is relevant to your interests.

JaronK
Very nice. No iffy rules interpretations, either.


There's also Hood if you believe 'tanking' is 'one-shotting everything in range.'

I'm seriously starting to think we could just replace you with a button that says "Hood" whenever pressed.

Who would know the difference?
Endarire sometimes posts her/his ridiculously optimized builds and goes "I'm out of ideas. Have any which could improve this masterpiece?". Could a button do that? Nay. I think not.

Edit: But seriously, Endarire, if you don't put the Hood build in your signature, I will do it first and then steal your street cred by pimping it worse than you.

For the record, I was referencing a very popular Naruto fanfiction which mocked Shikamaru in the exact same way. "troublesome"
What popular Naruto fanfiction doesn't? It's like a prerequisite or something to get >5000 reviews.

Also; Link?
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 08:47:52 AM by Saxony »
If I say something about real world physics, and someone disagrees, assume I am right 90% of the time. This number goes up to 100% if I am late night posting - trust me, my star dust sibs.

Prime32

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Re: Sword and Board Tank- 3.5e
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2010, 06:34:40 PM »
There's also Hood if you believe 'tanking' is 'one-shotting everything in range.'

I'm seriously starting to think we could just replace you with a button that says "Hood" whenever pressed.

Who would know the difference?
Endarire sometimes posts her/his ridiculously optimized builds and goes "I'm out of ideas. Have any which could improve this masterpiece?". Could a button do that? Nay. I think not.

Edit: But seriously, Endarire, if you don't put the Hood build in your signature, I will do it first and then steal your street cred by pimping it worse than you.

For the record, I was referencing a very popular Naruto fanfiction which mocked Shikamaru in the exact same way. "troublesome"
What popular Naruto fanfiction doesn't? It's like a prerequisite or something to get >5000 reviews.

Also; Link?
Link isn't a Naruto character, silly.
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Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Aliment

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Re: Sword and Board Tank- 3.5e
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2010, 08:21:14 PM »
I've never liked the concept of using Combat reflexes with a Crusader.  High dexterity on a character who should be wearing full plate makes me feel icky inside.
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veekie

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Re: Sword and Board Tank- 3.5e
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2010, 08:27:37 PM »
On the other hand, high AC alone wouldn't do much to draw fire, while mad opportunity attack spammage certainly would. The shield could help make up for the loss in AC from not using the heaviest possible armor anyway.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

sud

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Re: Sword and Board Tank- 3.5e
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2010, 05:22:09 PM »
I've never liked the concept of using Combat reflexes with a Crusader.  High dexterity on a character who should be wearing full plate makes me feel icky inside.

Combat Reflexes also grants you AOO's when flat-footed, which is handy for the tank and quite reasonable for any primary melee type.  Stylistically, think of it as just a highly conditioned response to having monsters continually lunging at you, or perhaps as being of "pure mind" and reacting to danger preternaturally quickly (OK, so that latter should really be Diamond Mind...), beyond what your DEX would indicate.

fuinjutsu

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Re: Sword and Board Tank- 3.5e
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2010, 06:59:35 PM »
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1532.0;wap2

This is relevant to your interests.

JaronK
Very nice. No iffy rules interpretations, either.


There's also Hood if you believe 'tanking' is 'one-shotting everything in range.'

I'm seriously starting to think we could just replace you with a button that says "Hood" whenever pressed.

Who would know the difference?
Endarire sometimes posts her/his ridiculously optimized builds and goes "I'm out of ideas. Have any which could improve this masterpiece?". Could a button do that? Nay. I think not.

Edit: But seriously, Endarire, if you don't put the Hood build in your signature, I will do it first and then steal your street cred by pimping it worse than you.

For the record, I was referencing a very popular Naruto fanfiction which mocked Shikamaru in the exact same way. "troublesome"
What popular Naruto fanfiction doesn't? It's like a prerequisite or something to get >5000 reviews.

Also; Link?

It's for a Good Cause, I Swear

Seriously though, the best Tank is a Incarnate with Martial Spirit from feats.
Eh, the wizard have more money than them combined, he could in theory just use all his money on a fleet of trained attack mules, but then we aren't playing 3.5 but zergling rushing in Starcraft instead.

Unbeliever

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Re: Sword and Board Tank- 3.5e
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2010, 03:49:12 AM »
Seriously though, the best Tank is a Incarnate with Martial Spirit from feats.
Any other thoughts on how that build would work out?  I get the Therapeutic Mantle core of it, but if you had a build sketched out already I'd be interested in seeing it.

snakeman830

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Re: Sword and Board Tank- 3.5e
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2010, 10:54:10 AM »
Seriously though, the best Tank is a Incarnate with Martial Spirit from feats.
Any other thoughts on how that build would work out?  I get the Therapeutic Mantle core of it, but if you had a build sketched out already I'd be interested in seeing it.
Therapeutic Mantle and Vitality Belt are the two important ones (an Incarnate 20 with max essentia in Vitality belt has an additional 160 hp to play with, a solid boost for any tank).
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

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