Author Topic: Optimizing a Dark Moon monk...  (Read 13867 times)

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Staminator

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Optimizing a Dark Moon monk...
« on: May 31, 2010, 09:43:49 AM »
...but this one's going to be difficult.

See, I've checked the Handbook. I've searched the web. And it seems most of the really good stuff for monks is going to be unavailable to me in this game.

Sources allowed:
All the Completes (except CChampion), all Faerun material 3.0 or later (including Dragon Mag articles specifically FR), Sandstorm, Cityscape, Frostburn, Stormwrack, Dungeonscape, Drow of the Underdark, Heroes of Battle.  MIC is acceptable on a case-by-case basis, prices may be adjusted in the process.

Where's the problem, you ask? Simple: PHB2 and ToB are not usable in this game, nor is psionics, nor is anything from Unearthed Arcana.  No Talashtora, no Superior Unarmed Strike, no Swordsage, no Snap Kick.

Concept:
A LE Dark Moon monk, set in the Forgotten Realms.  Servant to Shar, the goddess of Loss, and his particular job and code of ethics is "Destroy anything which society will allow."  As a day job, I'll have him working unskilled labor on a demolition crew :)  His capability as a fighter has to be decent, if not above-par...since the site this is for has a pretty bad track record for Stupid Evil folks.  I'll be walking within the law, and making sure to do so...but I need to be able to kick wholesale mundane ass.

Premise:
Race: Human.
The Dark Moon monk substitution levels from Champions of Valor web enhancement. [spoiler]Dark Moon Disciple Substitution Levels (CV, web enhancement): d6 HD
3rd level: Darkvision: Gain darkvision 60', lose still mind
7th level: Shadow Blend: Gain total concealment in less than full daylight, lose wholeness of body
12th level: Walk the Shadows: Gain dimension door to/from shadow, lose abundant step[/spoiler]

The 7th-level ability there is key...actually, it's pretty damn awesome, since it's full daylight or the radius of a daylight spell, and nothing else. (Glowing Orb spell is the most common light source in the game, outside of daylight hours.)

Initial starting stats are 32-point build (probably 15/14/14/10/16/8?) and I'll probably be starting with a 4th or 5th-level character.  I was looking at Jotunbrud at 1st followed by Knock-Down together with Imp Trip at L6. Probably Weakening Touch at 3rd. Alternatively, if Tripping isn't an option here given the limitations, I'd go Finesse/Pain Touch and focus on Stunning attacks.

The problem is...looking at the 4th-level option, I see me starting with a To-Hit of +6 which isn't good for a great deal. And I am unsure what to do with the build once it hits 7th (Cleric/Sacred Fist? Free Blind-Fight.).  Kensai isn't an option, due to Int...but I do have access to Bracers of Striking (Magic of Faerun) for unarmed enhancement, as well as a custom item (Silversilk Shirt) which allows direct armor enhancement bonus and special abilities.

Suggestions on how to make this build work enough to not become yet another Flurry of Misses? I'm not asking for world-breaking power, just some basic competence at hitting things, making them fall down or screaming in pain, and then putting them out of their misery.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 09:47:02 AM by Staminator »

Solo

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Saxony

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Re: Optimizing a Dark Moon monk...
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2010, 11:07:40 AM »
Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks
Isn't Giacomo completely terrible at making monks and playing optimized DnD in general?
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Agita

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Re: Optimizing a Dark Moon monk...
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2010, 11:17:56 AM »
Beating Batman: Sir Giacomo's Guide to Monks
Isn't Giacomo completely terrible at making monks and playing optimized DnD in general?
Yes, he is. I presume Solo (who is rather famous for owning Giacomo, AFAIK) was either being sarcastic or testing the newbie. ;)
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Staminator

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Re: Optimizing a Dark Moon monk...
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2010, 12:43:28 PM »
"You're the ******* Joker."

*straight face* Yep, not really what I was looking for.

Solo

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Re: Optimizing a Dark Moon monk...
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2010, 01:11:58 PM »
Take Travel Devotion

Use an Amulet of Natural Attacks

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Staminator

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Re: Optimizing a Dark Moon monk...
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2010, 01:24:52 PM »
Sources allowed:
...All the Completes (except CChampion)...

Solo

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Re: Optimizing a Dark Moon monk...
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2010, 01:30:17 PM »
Scratch that, then. Pick yourself up the amulet.

Also, I would be remiss if I did not mention the Great Fortitude + Poison Healer + alcohol combo, though your drow isn't dwarfy enough to pull it off properly. Still, it's entertaining if nothing else.

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Staminator

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Re: Optimizing a Dark Moon monk...
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2010, 01:37:13 PM »
Scratch that, then. Pick yourself up the amulet.

Also, I would be remiss if I did not mention the Great Fortitude + Poison Healer + alcohol combo, though your drow isn't dwarfy enough to pull it off properly. Still, it's entertaining if nothing else.
Amulet is On The List.

...drow? Nothing about drow in my opening post.  This is a Human, following Shar. (Methinks you confused this with Lolth.) Fiendish Codex is also not on the list of approved whatchamacallit, and that would be a great combo for a Drunken Master (will keep that in mind for later builds).

Would you mind trying to offer something that reflects the OP's rather notable limitations?

Solo

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Re: Optimizing a Dark Moon monk...
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2010, 01:39:16 PM »
Sorry, haven't slept for a long time due to jetlag.

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Staminator

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Re: Optimizing a Dark Moon monk...
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2010, 01:42:11 PM »
Fair nuff! It IS a pretty big boatload of limitations, for a monk at any rate. Most of the really good stuff not being available and whatnot.

I'm trying to see if it can be done...have two potential builds I'll try and get up later today so you folks can shoot them to bits.

carnivore

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Re: Optimizing a Dark Moon monk...
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2010, 01:50:40 PM »
try this:

Dex based:


Lesser Drow
Monk/ Fighter ..... use Drow sub lvl(Drow of the Underdark)

 :D

« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 02:02:00 PM by carnivore »

woodenbandman

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Re: Optimizing a Dark Moon monk...
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2010, 02:00:18 PM »
If you are capable of jacking up your Truespeak check, I'd suggest that you become a Disciple of the Word (tome of Magic). Makes all your abilities (for the most part) rely on truespeak checks. Granted, for the cost of an immediate action, but it definitely will help eliminate your MADness, especially if Carmedine Monk is allowed. With your final 3 levels, I'd go with Umbral Disciple for the SWEET ability to grant yourself a patch of shadow to hide in. You'll basically go Monk7/Disciple of the WordX/Umbral Disciple3/Finish Disciple.

Notable abilities: total concealment forever
Ability to substitute a truename check (and usually it costs an immediate action and a use of stunning fist) for the following checks:

Reflex save
Balance, Tumble, or Jump check
Strength check vs bull rush, trip, or disarm

DISPEL AN ACTIVE SPELL
OVERCOME DAMAGE REDUCTION UP TO EPIC
Once per day, AVOID ANY ONE ATTACK
NEGATE A SPELL THAT OFFERS SPELL RESISTANCE

The only problem is that of how to jack up that truespeak check. And how to get more uses of Stunning Fist (Isn't there an extra stunning feat?)

How's that?

EDIT: :( none of the books are specifically disallowed, but I can only assume that means they're not allowed.

Well, I'm fresh out.

Solo

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Re: Optimizing a Dark Moon monk...
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2010, 02:02:51 PM »
Getting a high truenaming check? Easy. Truenaming? Bad idea.

PrC wise, how about Tattoo'd Monk from the CWar?

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woodenbandman

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Re: Optimizing a Dark Moon monk...
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2010, 02:04:31 PM »
^it gives a whole bunch of stuff that doesn't actually apply the law of resistance or rely on the retarded truenaming DCs (exception of the DC 50 capstone which is awesome if you can make it). Most of the abilities are opposed checks.

EDIT: New idea: Monk7/Rogue3 (carmedine if possible)/Assassin10. Love it or hate it, it's got great synergy with your hiding, and if you can delay for 3 rounds in a battle you can guarantee that someone's going to instadie, or you can just use your super-special awesome sneak attack synergy. Not optimal, but it's a start.

Staminator

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Re: Optimizing a Dark Moon monk...
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2010, 02:28:06 PM »
Drow Fighter sub level: :facepalm Yep, that's a great one for a Dex build, especially given the 7th-level sub level of Dark Moon.  If going the Dex route, the build would probably be Monk7/Fighter1/RogueX.  Thanks for pointing that out - can't believe I forgot it!

Carmendine/Assassin: Not available...requires another deity! Honestly wish it WAS available as this would be a lot simpler otherwise. Int for this build is going to be 10.

Tattooed Monk: Needs Imp. Grapple, which I'm probably going to suck at...and if I'm going to go further ahead with Monk stuff and the Average BAB that includes, wouldn't I want to do so with an eye on Greater Flurry?  I know Tattooed Monk is essentially a Build-Your-Own, so you can pick the class features that you'll actually care about...but it drops Flurry, IIRC.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 02:35:30 PM by Staminator »

woodenbandman

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Re: Optimizing a Dark Moon monk...
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2010, 03:18:33 PM »
I really do wish that the disciple was allowed, it's a really cool class.

So Drow/Fighter/Rogue looks to be the best so far. Take that Complete adventurer feat and boom.

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Re: Optimizing a Dark Moon monk...
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2010, 03:41:54 PM »
I really do wish that the disciple was allowed, it's a really cool class.

So Drow/Fighter/Rogue looks to be the best so far. Take that Complete adventurer feat and boom.

Which, Ascetic Rogue?

Staminator

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Re: Optimizing a Dark Moon monk...
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2010, 05:57:49 PM »
Alright...builds! Treat 'em rough, let me know how to make them work better within the sourcebooks allowed!

In both cases, I'm assuming Human and going with the sub levels above.

Dex-y SoS
[spoiler]Monk7/Drow Fighter1/RogueX
Stats 12/16/14/10/16/8 (32 points)
Skills: Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Tumble, Escape Artist.  Rogue skill points kick in right about the time you want the really good Skill Tricks.
Feats:
1: Ability Focus (Stunning Fist), Stunning Fist, Imp. Toughness (?)
2: Combat Reflexes
3: Weapon Finesse
6: Imp. Trip (?), Pain Touch
9: Staggering Strike
12: Ascetic Rogue[/spoiler]

Knock-Down Tripper
[spoiler]Monk6/? (Something with full BAB...Cleric1/Sacred Fist?)
Stats 15/14/14/10/16/8
Skills: See build above.
Feats:
1: Stunning Fist, Jotunbrud, Combat Casting
2: Combat Reflexes
3: Weakening Touch (?)
6: Imp. Trip, Knock-Down.[/spoiler]

I am also wondering if taking the Monk to L12, then going Teflamnar Shadowlord, is possibly a worthwhile avenue to explore.

Edit: Tweaked a few things.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 06:25:36 PM by Staminator »

zavule

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Re: Optimizing a Dark Moon monk...
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2010, 09:36:15 PM »
I have to ask... WHY MONK?  Maybe you could dip for two levels.  Or grab a monk's belt as soon as you have enough money.
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