Author Topic: Sand Shaper and Sorcerers  (Read 8853 times)

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Cuindless

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Sand Shaper and Sorcerers
« on: May 29, 2010, 05:55:24 PM »
I was looking at sorcerer optimization and saw that many optimizers recommend a one level dip into Sand Shaper for the "Desert Insight" ability. The spell list isn't bad, and I can certainly understand the need sorcerers have for more spells. My question is, is it really worth the loss of a spellcasting level when other PrCs like "Mage of the Arcane Order" can offer versatility without the progression loss? I don't have any specific builds in mind, I'm just thinking overall here. What are some specific instances where it's definitely worth it or definitely NOT worth it?

Flay Crimsonwind

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Re: Sand Shaper and Sorcerers
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2010, 06:25:11 PM »
The sheer volume from sandshaper makes it damned well worth it. You should in practice simply try to not lose caster levels to the point where you lose 9th level progression, since they're just peak of the game. This is mainly so that in epic you can start making epic spells, mind you. If you don't plan on playing epic, there are just as many ways to break the game and own everything ever with 8th level and below spells. 9th are just easier and more super.

snakeman830

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Re: Sand Shaper and Sorcerers
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2010, 08:39:31 PM »
49 spells known?  I think that's worth a caster level.  You can take a few more levels in Sandshaper if you want, since the next couple of levels advane casting and give interesting (though not the most powerful) class features.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
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[/spoiler]

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Frost Wolf

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Re: Sand Shaper and Sorcerers
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2010, 11:53:32 AM »
Sand Shaper looses 2 levels of casting, correct? I winder Kobold could soak that...

geniussavant

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Re: Sand Shaper and Sorcerers
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2010, 01:43:51 PM »
It can soak up at least 1, and throw in loredrake, and it'll soak u 2 more so u could even loose another.
[spoiler]
I see that you want to solve problems. Not problems like, "What is beauty?," because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of 'philosophy'. You want to solve practical problems. F'r instance, how are you gonna stop some big, mean Mother Hubbard from tearing you a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer: Use a gun. And if that don't work? Use more gun.
And if that fails try this


 
[/spoiler]

Frost Wolf

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Re: Sand Shaper and Sorcerers
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2010, 03:02:58 PM »
Oh! Kobold Sorc/ Sand shaper/ War Weaver. Maybe use early entry and see if Metamagic Spell Shaper can be made to fit too. Feat heavy so flaws and locations would be a must, but do able. I'll see if I can make something with this.  :smirk

geniussavant

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Re: Sand Shaper and Sorcerers
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2010, 03:23:28 PM »
Should be a cool build, let me know how it goes, I might steal it, if you don't mind that is.
[spoiler]
I see that you want to solve problems. Not problems like, "What is beauty?," because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of 'philosophy'. You want to solve practical problems. F'r instance, how are you gonna stop some big, mean Mother Hubbard from tearing you a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer: Use a gun. And if that don't work? Use more gun.
And if that fails try this


 
[/spoiler]

Fluffles

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Re: Sand Shaper and Sorcerers
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2010, 03:25:59 PM »
Oh! Kobold Sorc/ Sand shaper/ War Weaver. Maybe use early entry and see if Metamagic Spell Shaper can be made to fit too. Feat heavy so flaws and locations would be a must, but do able. I'll see if I can make something with this.  :smirk

I think you mean Metaphysical Spell Shaper? (The one from BoEF)

Frost Wolf

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Re: Sand Shaper and Sorcerers
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2010, 03:31:21 PM »
yep. that one.

geniussavant

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Re: Sand Shaper and Sorcerers
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2010, 03:57:38 PM »
BoEF? I've never heard of that acronym.
[spoiler]
I see that you want to solve problems. Not problems like, "What is beauty?," because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of 'philosophy'. You want to solve practical problems. F'r instance, how are you gonna stop some big, mean Mother Hubbard from tearing you a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer: Use a gun. And if that don't work? Use more gun.
And if that fails try this


 
[/spoiler]

skydragonknight

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Re: Sand Shaper and Sorcerers
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2010, 03:59:11 PM »
Book of Erotic Fantasy. Needless to say, a third party supplement.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

geniussavant

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Re: Sand Shaper and Sorcerers
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2010, 04:15:47 PM »
Anyone know if it's worth the money? Or balanced?
[spoiler]
I see that you want to solve problems. Not problems like, "What is beauty?," because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of 'philosophy'. You want to solve practical problems. F'r instance, how are you gonna stop some big, mean Mother Hubbard from tearing you a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer: Use a gun. And if that don't work? Use more gun.
And if that fails try this


 
[/spoiler]

Rymosrac

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Re: Sand Shaper and Sorcerers
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2010, 04:31:24 PM »
I don't think anyone really takes that book seriously.
Shh. My common sense is tingling. . .

geniussavant

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Re: Sand Shaper and Sorcerers
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2010, 04:44:07 PM »
I know someone who would, he always has been into the stranger third party books. It's an ongoing joke between us to see who can find the strangest yet balanced book.
[spoiler]
I see that you want to solve problems. Not problems like, "What is beauty?," because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of 'philosophy'. You want to solve practical problems. F'r instance, how are you gonna stop some big, mean Mother Hubbard from tearing you a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer: Use a gun. And if that don't work? Use more gun.
And if that fails try this


 
[/spoiler]

Fluffles

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Re: Sand Shaper and Sorcerers
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2010, 05:02:01 PM »
BoEF in not worth it. Unless you want to wierd out the rest of your group.

geniussavant

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Re: Sand Shaper and Sorcerers
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2010, 05:23:31 PM »
True, he probably wouldn't use it though, I still haven't use some of the ones he's gotten me. But I think I kinda derailed from the topic, so I'll just drop it. And sorry to the op
[spoiler]
I see that you want to solve problems. Not problems like, "What is beauty?," because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of 'philosophy'. You want to solve practical problems. F'r instance, how are you gonna stop some big, mean Mother Hubbard from tearing you a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer: Use a gun. And if that don't work? Use more gun.
And if that fails try this


 
[/spoiler]

ninjarabbit

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Re: Sand Shaper and Sorcerers
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2010, 05:59:35 PM »
Back on topic

Sandshaper is more worth it to warmages, dread necros, and beguilers since they benefit more due to their limited spell lists and they automanically know all of their spells at a given leve as soon as they can cast them so they don't lose any spells known if they lose a caster level.

It's worth it at low levels for sorcerers but they start to feel the pain at higher levels.

geniussavant

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Re: Sand Shaper and Sorcerers
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2010, 06:28:56 PM »
Unless you use kobold cheese, but if you are using that the game only lasts what like 15 rounds?
[spoiler]
I see that you want to solve problems. Not problems like, "What is beauty?," because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of 'philosophy'. You want to solve practical problems. F'r instance, how are you gonna stop some big, mean Mother Hubbard from tearing you a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer: Use a gun. And if that don't work? Use more gun.
And if that fails try this


 
[/spoiler]

Negative Zero

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Re: Sand Shaper and Sorcerers
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2010, 12:54:02 AM »
Back on topic

Sandshaper is more worth it to warmages, dread necros, and beguilers since they benefit more due to their limited spell lists and they automanically know all of their spells at a given leve as soon as they can cast them so they don't lose any spells known if they lose a caster level.

It's worth it at low levels for sorcerers but they start to feel the pain at higher levels.

Keep in mind that sorcerers don't have to spend spells known on that list, either.

Cuindless

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Re: Sand Shaper and Sorcerers
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2010, 09:54:21 PM »
Keep in mind that sorcerers don't have to spend spells known on that list, either.

That's true. It gives "knowledge of" those spells, not "access to" them. It even goes on to clarify for the case of sorcerers.