So, does anyone think that Eladrins play for the pink team?

[Kuroimaken]

Since 4e came out, the rest of my group just won't stop making jokes about how Eladrins are the new gay elves. Back in 3e, they used to ridicule regular elves, saying they were too fruity for their own good.

But I don't really get that impression. To me, Eladrins are more like the good guy counterparts to Tieflings (if anything because back in 3e, Eladrin were good outsiders). Furthermore, elves get a lot of perks that Eladrins just plain don't have mechanically.

A few examples:

1) Elven Accuracy, the core of many a recent broken build. There just isn't a single good explanation why they get to reroll AFTER they missed. "I reroll cuz I'm an elf" just doesn't cut it for me.

2) Eladrins are shafted in that they are the ONLY race whose racial attribute bonuses both contribute to a single defense, and no class so far makes use of both at once. Since you only get to use Dex or Int to AC if you've got light armor, you get hosed on that too.

3) Elves get to shift around difficult terrain. Eladrins get to teleport once per encounter. Arguably, Eladrins have it better, but Elves also get a natural speed of 7, which no other races do.

4) Why oh WHY does the presence of an elf affect the perception of his allies? Is it because elves are such a shining beacon of gayness that everyone looks anywhere but towards the elf?

In my opinion, Eladrins are less gay than elves because they get a bonus to Intelligence rather than Wisdom. I believe the reason behind that is that elves need the extra perception for their interior decoration skills. Darned friggin' tree-huggers.

(Note: in case anyone didn't notice, this is an elf-bashing thread. Let's gather some good arguments for it).

[tsuyoshikentsu]

So can we not have a thread filled with raging homophobia?

[PhoenixInferno]

I notice you have lots of negative G-Fu.  I suggest you start to think before you post.

[ShaggyShaggs]

So, this is a gay/fluff doesn't justify crunch/race-bashing thread with a minor in halfassed ability comparison?  Crap salad FTL.

[Kuroimaken]

So can we not have a thread filled with raging homophobia?

Maybe. I don't have to call elves gay. I just have to show how much better Eladrins are.

I notice you have lots of negative G-Fu.  I suggest you start to think before you post.

Being PC and having negative G-Fu are not related. I'm not being PC on this given thread, because honestly, I'm sick and tired of other people's negative G-Fu. Further: I understand homophobia is looked down upon, but I frankly don't care.

So, this is a gay/fluff doesn't justify crunch/race-bashing thread with a minor in halfassed ability comparison?  Crap salad FTL.

You're welcome to do it better.

[ShaggyShaggs]

So, this is a gay/fluff doesn't justify crunch/race-bashing thread with a minor in halfassed ability comparison?  Crap salad FTL.

You're welcome to do it better.

Polish a turd and it's still a turd.  The problem isn't your delivery, the problem is the content is garbage.

[Kuroimaken]

Polish a turd and it's still a turd.  The problem isn't your delivery, the problem is the content is garbage.

I suppose that's true. Let's approach this from another angle, then. Fluff-wise, how do I convince my group that Eladrins are not, in fact, flaming pansies?

[ShaggyShaggs]

Heh, good luck.  Groundless strongly-held opinions based on fluff tend not to die rationally.  You may have some results from creation of a powerful, non-generic eladrin character with an attitude and outlook well-suited to your group's temperament and playing it out for awhile, followed by a reminder that PHB fluff is neither the whole story nor immutable.

[Kuroimaken]

Heh, good luck.  Groundless strongly-held opinions based on fluff tend not to die rationally.  You may have some results from creation of a powerful, non-generic eladrin character with an attitude and outlook well-suited to your group's temperament and playing it out for awhile, followed by a reminder that PHB fluff is neither the whole story nor immutable.

Dude, that's why I'm asking for help.

Further, in doing so, they'll probably go on about how I'm trying to overcompensate. And it'll be tough either way...

[Kuroimaken]

Hmmm, I could probably start with better fluff pictures, though.

[ShaggyShaggs]

Hey, as was once said in a thread about unnecessary boosting of goblin and kobold stats in 3.5, the best way to defend the reputation of [eladrins] is to USE THEM, and use them well.  Just IGNORE IT when the players laugh at the attacking band of [eladrins], and kick their asses.

[Kuroimaken]

Hey, as was once said in a thread about unnecessary boosting of goblin and kobold stats in 3.5, the best way to defend the reputation of [eladrins] is to USE THEM, and use them well.  Just IGNORE IT when the players laugh at the attacking band of [eladrins], and kick their asses.

I fully intend to one day DM a game where the main villain will be an Eladrin with a compulsion for kicking people in the head for OOC jokes.

Alternatively, I could make a flaming elf.

[Omen of Peace]

Further: I understand homophobia is looked down upon, but I frankly don't care.

I would heed PI's words if I were you.

Also: no douchebaggery here. It's the only rule for fuck's sake !

[X-Codes]

I find it amusing that this thread is so inane that I can turn on auto-refresh and just sit here watching Kuroimaken's G-fu continue to fall.

If you want to make your friends stop calling Eladrins gay, then put an NPC Eladrin and NPC hot princess in your game.  When the PCs rescue the princess, have the NPC Eladrin bend her over and nail her right there on the spot.  Textbook not-gayness.  You'll make everyone go "WTF!?" for a week and no mention of Eladrins being gay will ever be made again without a laugh about how the Eladrin nailed the princess.

[Kuroimaken]

I find it amusing that this thread is so inane that I can turn on auto-refresh and just sit here watching Kuroimaken's G-fu continue to fall.

Dude, I don't CARE about my G-Fu. Honestly.

If you want to make your friends stop calling Eladrins gay, then put an NPC Eladrin and NPC hot princess in your game.  When the PCs rescue the princess, have the NPC Eladrin bend her over and nail her right there on the spot.  Textbook not-gayness.  You'll make everyone go "WTF!?" for a week and no mention of Eladrins being gay will ever be made again without a laugh about how the Eladrin nailed the princess.

As I said, overcompensating is going to be mentioned.

[Rev]

I notice you have lots of negative G-Fu.  I suggest you start to think before you post.

Being PC and having negative G-Fu are not related. I'm not being PC on this given thread, because honestly, I'm sick and tired of other people's negative G-Fu. Further: I understand homophobia is looked down upon, but I frankly don't care.

You probably should if you want your posts taken seriously. A bad impression is hard to unmake. Most of us view homophobia as something kids or the ignorant indulge in.

Hell, it stopped being even an option for me when one of my gaming group came out to us. Hard to think of "deh gae" as being a threat to your sexuality when it's Jimmy-down-the-road-you've-gamed-with-for-10-years.

[ShaggyShaggs]

Yeah, I was brought up to think that way and made to get over it in highschool, similar circumstances... it's really difficult to hold onto the idea that gay = degenerate, inhuman or whatever other crap you get taught, when you unexpectedly learn that friends you trust and know to be good people are gay or bi.  Though I must admit I took the cognitive dissonance rather gracelessly.  Good thing they forgave the brief jackass period.

[chibishuffle]

I woke up today and I didn't want to be a jackass I really didn't but well now thats changed. Please Oh please can we get a mod to lock, delete or undo this fountain of dumb.

[Sunic_Flames]

...And here I thought these forums were safe...

*makes use of that dusty exclamation point button*

[Meg]

Yeah... No Douchebaggery is the ONLY rule and homophobia is definitely douchebag-arific. 

I'm going to lock this.  But, at the core, a question about how to convince your players that Eladrins can be masculine is absolutely fine to talk about, so go ahead and start a thread that is more directed at that.  I could see a party getting stuck on the gay thing.  So ask about what you can do to butch them up, or better yet, make it so who cares if they are effeminate.