Author Topic: Charger Prestige Class  (Read 3495 times)

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MrErikO

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Charger Prestige Class
« on: May 25, 2010, 03:52:19 AM »
Hello folks of the Min/Max board. I have a question regarding a charger. I have a slightly modified version of the Powertool skeleton from the 'Little Red Raiding Hood' Handbook. However, this guideline ends at 20. My character plans to enter epic levels so here poses the question: Where to we go from there? Is there a prestige class that works well with the charger or should one progress Warblade levels some more?

 Also, if this guides any decisions, my character would ideally be riding a dragon eventually and I have included mounted combat, fly-by attack and spirited charge as feats into the build.

Endarire

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Re: Charger Prestige Class
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2010, 06:41:46 AM »
Get.  Magic.  My Epic section emphasizes this.

Epic is an initiative war at least as much as earlier level.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

MrErikO

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Re: Charger Prestige Class
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2010, 03:03:43 PM »
Alright, magic. Arcane? Divine? This is for the purpose of buffing myself and party members? Or did I miss something, this would be the first time I've taken a character into the epic levels so I wouldn't know what to expect.

skydragonknight

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Re: Charger Prestige Class
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2010, 03:07:14 PM »
Hello folks of the Min/Max board. I have a question regarding a charger. I have a slightly modified version of the Powertool skeleton from the 'Little Red Raiding Hood' Handbook. However, this guideline ends at 20. My character plans to enter epic levels so here poses the question: Where to we go from there? Is there a prestige class that works well with the charger or should one progress Warblade levels some more?

Details. Can't tweak what we can't see.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Solo

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Re: Charger Prestige Class
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2010, 03:09:27 PM »
Take one level in Cancer Mage.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

MrErikO

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Re: Charger Prestige Class
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2010, 03:19:13 PM »
In short, quoted from the Little Red Raiding Hood thread this is pretty much what I will have in a nutshell, let me know if you need more details.

'Nonlawful Nonevil Dragonborn Half-Orc  Feat Rogue1/Cleric1/Psychic Warrior1/Barbarian1/Warblade4 (Tome of Battle 21)/Psychic Warrior+1/Fighter1/Warblade+9/Fighter+1'

skydragonknight

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Re: Charger Prestige Class
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2010, 03:28:53 PM »
My gut says Ur-Priest on this one, and using a maneuver-granting item to enter Ruby Knight Vindicator, advancing Ur-Priest casting (waving the Wee Jas fluff). I'm away from books, so I forget if RKV requires a stance or just a maneuver to enter it.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

MrErikO

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Re: Charger Prestige Class
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2010, 03:38:41 PM »
My gut says Ur-Priest on this one, and using a maneuver-granting item to enter Ruby Knight Vindicator, advancing Ur-Priest casting (waving the Wee Jas fluff). I'm away from books, so I forget if RKV requires a stance or just a maneuver to enter it.

A maneuver different from the ones gained through Warblade? I'll look up RKV as we speak.

Edit: I don't think Ur Priest will be possible as I have to remain non evil to keep Dragonborn and isn't evil alignment a requirement for Ur Priest?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 03:44:52 PM by MrErikO »

snakeman830

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Re: Charger Prestige Class
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2010, 04:20:05 PM »
My gut says Ur-Priest on this one, and using a maneuver-granting item to enter Ruby Knight Vindicator, advancing Ur-Priest casting (waving the Wee Jas fluff). I'm away from books, so I forget if RKV requires a stance or just a maneuver to enter it.

A maneuver different from the ones gained through Warblade? I'll look up RKV as we speak.

Edit: I don't think Ur Priest will be possible as I have to remain non evil to keep Dragonborn and isn't evil alignment a requirement for Ur Priest?
Adaptation section has plenty of options for non-evil Ur-Priests.
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skydragonknight

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Re: Charger Prestige Class
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2010, 04:24:26 PM »
My gut says Ur-Priest on this one, and using a maneuver-granting item to enter Ruby Knight Vindicator, advancing Ur-Priest casting (waving the Wee Jas fluff). I'm away from books, so I forget if RKV requires a stance or just a maneuver to enter it.

A maneuver different from the ones gained through Warblade? I'll look up RKV as we speak.

Edit: I don't think Ur Priest will be possible as I have to remain non evil to keep Dragonborn and isn't evil alignment a requirement for Ur Priest?
Adaptation section has plenty of options for non-evil Ur-Priests.

Maybe Spell focus(necromancy) as a prereq instead of spell focus (evil)?

If all else fails, there's the Divine Crusader PrC. Spellcasting is seriously meh but you could at least get epic spell slots from it (advanced with RKV). And other than 7 BAB and two skill points, it only requires a weapon focus feat in your deity's weapon.
There's a spell in complete champion that let's you swap your domain for another your deity offers. A magic item of that could (in theory: I'd have to hard-read the text) let you change your spell list on the fly.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 04:31:13 PM by skydragonknight »
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

MrErikO

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Re: Charger Prestige Class
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2010, 04:32:19 PM »
Backtracking a little bit, can someone give me an explanation as to why spell casting is going to be majorly important come Epic Levels? I picked up on something regarding initiative wars, however I'm still a bit confused.

skydragonknight

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Re: Charger Prestige Class
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2010, 04:35:29 PM »
Let me put it this way: would you rather be you or you shapechanged into something with much better stats than you? That's just the tip of the iceberg.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Rebel7284

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Re: Charger Prestige Class
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2010, 04:37:36 PM »
High level spells are some of the most powerful abilities in the game.  Also, epic spellcasting allows you to easily make spells to do whatever you want.
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Fluffles

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Re: Charger Prestige Class
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2010, 04:42:01 PM »
High level spells are some of the most powerful abilities in the game.  Also, epic spellcasting allows you to easily make spells to do whatever you want.

Assuming your DM allows epic spells.

MrErikO

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Re: Charger Prestige Class
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2010, 05:10:39 PM »
Understood, thanks for the response.

Rymosrac

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Re: Charger Prestige Class
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2010, 05:11:45 PM »
Epic without casting isn't particularly epic. You just don't have anything resembling the ability to compete with the casters at that level.
Shh. My common sense is tingling. . .

skydragonknight

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Re: Charger Prestige Class
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2010, 05:17:54 PM »
Epic without casting isn't particularly epic. You just don't have anything resembling the ability to compete with the casters at that level.

Mostly true. A hood can get level-appropriate damage numbers for quite a while into epic (I played a Stormwind Dragoon in Epic and it was fun). But the defensive abilities spells can provide are invaluable, as well as things like Wraithstrike (as an example) to make sure you actually connect.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Rymosrac

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Re: Charger Prestige Class
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2010, 05:42:29 PM »
Indeed. Sufficient damage hasn't been the bottleneck for charger builds in years. The lack of defensive capability, versatility, and ability to deliver that damage to targets with the defenses spellcasting provides are where they have trouble.
Shh. My common sense is tingling. . .

MrErikO

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Re: Charger Prestige Class
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2010, 05:59:19 PM »
I have a question, would an option for lack of spellcasting be solved with Leadership and a cohort being the support caster?

Unbeliever

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Re: Charger Prestige Class
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2010, 06:44:01 PM »
I have a question, would an option for lack of spellcasting be solved with Leadership and a cohort being the support caster?
I think totally.  I'd imagine a 17th level caster or artificer will do better casting than your character can.  It might not be necessary, but they could dip into Spellguard of Silverymoon to cast personal spells on you. 

It also depends a bit on what sort of epic environment you're operating in.  The Epic Level rules are somewhat hopelessly out of date and problematic -- Epic Spellcasting being the most notorious offender, but there are others (e.g., the Dire Charge feat being superceded and then some by Lion Totem Barb). 

I have played a fair number of epic games w/ fairly high-powered characters and w/ a group that is firmly in the "practical optimization w/ gentleman's rules" spirit.  In those games, fighting mostly epic monsters right out of the book or modified w/ templates (e.g., fought an intelligent version of the Tarrasque w/ a few templates on him), non-spellcaster characters did quite well.  Hell, a straight-up Paladin, w/ a quick dip into Marshal and the right feats did really well, and the most powerful (or, at least, the most frustrating to the DM) was my Rogue who had some Spellthief-type abilities. 

That's been my experience, at least, but it may be worth scoping around to see what else is on the board and asking your DM how much he wants to push the initiative war or ask you to shoot for "real ultimate powah!"  Personally, one of the things I find nice about higher level games, one of which I'm about to run whenever my players get their collective acts together, is that you don't have to optimize much to have something awesome and interesting.