Author Topic: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?  (Read 9917 times)

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As a Conjurer i there any reason except RP you would not ban evocation?
Does this change between 3.0, 3.5 or pathfinder?
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Anklebite

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2010, 07:45:47 AM »
As a Conjurer i there any reason except RP you would not ban evocation?
Does this change between 3.0, 3.5 or pathfinder?
if you had the RP restriction of "will not use necromancy for it is evil", and "will not use enchantments, for they are evil", then yes. besides, sometimes you want evocation. really, it depends on the exact situation. DnD is too fluid to make such assumptions and then apply them to every game; this is why we don't have a "master builds" compilation, and just play those every session.
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jolt

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2010, 08:45:50 AM »
Evocation has some nice spells to bare in mind:

Sonorous Hum (SpC), which can be replicated with a skill trick once/encounter. Or with Shadow Evocation.

Contingency, which can be replicated with a feat. (that costs you a buckload of exp though)

Howling Chain, which is a very nice lockdown spell.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2010, 09:19:13 AM by jolt »

Rebel7284

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2010, 08:58:49 AM »
In a campaign featuring a lot of mindless undead, I'd ban enchantment first.  But yeah, then I would need a RP reason to ban something else instead of evocation.
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CantripN

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2010, 09:27:31 AM »
I actually like evocation. Sure, it's a hammer school, but sometimes you meet nails.

1st - Magic Missile. Sometimes your only option at helping an encounter is doing reliable, even if lowish damage. Once you're done buffing, or are reluctant to waste higher level spells, this is a nice thing to have. On par with a Reserve feat, and obtainable via the Gloves of the Starry Sky.
2nd - Frost Breath. Reflex Save or Dazed. What other school has a Reflex save or die?
3rd - Sonorous Hum (lets you cast other spells while concentrating, unlike the skill trick, and doesn't cost you a Swift Action every round), Ray of the Python (Prevent Full-Attacks, AoOs and reduce speed with NO SAVE for the first round, and a Reflex save later).
5th - Boreal Wind (damage + Battlefield Control), Sending (Tell anyone, anywhere, anything).
6th - Chain Lightning (20d6 damage at a 6th level slot is CHEAP), Contingency (This one doesn't cost XP nor gold to use, and can be replicated by an 8th level spell that might not work, depending on your DM)
7th - Stored Lightning Bolt (2d6/CL, no Save, and with an added area damage? Sure), Radiant Assault (15d6 AoE, Will Half, Daze if they fail for 1d6 rounds), Forcecage (!), Grasping Hand/Ice Claw (GRAPPLE GOOD!)

Those are just off the top of my head. There are worthy spells in this school. True, unless you're a blaster, many aren't as useful, but being able to do something to the person you'd just used Battlefield Control and Debuffs on is generally useful. And I don't know about you, but an AC of 40/50 on CR 12 NPC is not uncommon for me, so Summons just won't cut it.

I'd generally get rid of Enchantment first, Necromancy 2nd, and if going Focused Specialist, Evoker 3rd. And then, only because you have so few non-in-school slots free, and those tend to go to the school you didn't specialize in of Tran/Conj.
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Phoenix00

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2010, 11:40:29 AM »
I rarely see love for two great evocation spells and this is sad

Venom Bolt (Serpent Kingdoms, Wiz/Sorc 4, Cleric 4)   100ft line.  Small amount of acid damage.  But even if you are immune to acid, Fort Save or Paralyzed for 1d4+1 rounds.  If you save on the Fort Save you are still slowed.

Streamers (Shinning South, Wiz/Sorc 5, Cleric 5).  This is the best damage spell in the game.

jolt

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2010, 11:45:23 AM »
7th - Stored Lightning Bolt (2d6/CL, no Save, and with an added area damage? Sure)

I'm reading the Secrets of Sarlona version of the spell, which states that reflex save halves damage. Are you reading another version or did you make a tiny mistake?

CantripN

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2010, 11:46:50 AM »
7th - Stored Lightning Bolt (2d6/CL, no Save, and with an added area damage? Sure)

I'm reading the Secrets of Sarlona version of the spell, which states that reflex save halves damage. Are you reading another version or did you make a tiny mistake?

Not at all. Read what happens if you cast it an object someone is currently touching.
Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to be always part of unanimity.

Runestar

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2010, 11:55:58 AM »
You may want to prep fire spells to fuel fiery burst?  :p
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jolt

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2010, 11:57:06 AM »
7th - Stored Lightning Bolt (2d6/CL, no Save, and with an added area damage? Sure)

I'm reading the Secrets of Sarlona version of the spell, which states that reflex save halves damage. Are you reading another version or did you make a tiny mistake?

Not at all. Read what happens if you cast it an object someone is currently touching.
with damage calculated as above.

CantripN

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2010, 12:25:07 PM »
As above goes to say to me double damage, as though that person touched it after the casting. But your interpretation is the more reasonable one, so I'll go with it.
Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to be always part of unanimity.

jolt

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2010, 12:49:22 PM »
Too bad, but to be expected from all those kind of evocation spells.

Solo

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2010, 01:08:53 PM »
You may want to prep fire spells to fuel fiery burst?  :p
Orb of Fire.

Evocation wise, there's a nice spell called Defenestrate Sphere, so I hear...

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Havok4

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2010, 01:44:44 PM »
You may want to prep fire spells to fuel fiery burst?  :p
Orb of Fire.

Evocation wise, there's a nice spell called Defenestrate Sphere, so I hear...
Defenestrating sphere is quite nice.

Endarire

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2010, 04:09:29 PM »
As a Wizard, dead animation is not my forte.  I can't keep up with a Cleric and most people think 'disguised undead bodyguard = eivl mstar!'

Enchantment is easily ditchable from a mechanical PoV.  In an intrigue-heavy game, Enchantment may be worth keeping, or a reason to have a Bard or Sorcerer cohort.

Evocation I love.  I can blast, but the force spells and contingency make it the last school I ban.

In Pathfinder, I do the same.  Opposing Necromancy means I can still animate dead but my desire to depends greatly on what corpses I find.
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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2010, 04:10:25 PM »
If I didn't need necromancy.... Well, Contingency is nice, and Invoke Magic is practically mandatory with some DM's.......  The jerks.
Eh, the wizard have more money than them combined, he could in theory just use all his money on a fleet of trained attack mules, but then we aren't playing 3.5 but zergling rushing in Starcraft instead.

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2010, 06:04:50 PM »
6th - Chain Lightning (20d6 damage at a 6th level slot is CHEAP),
Still, transmutation wins hands down on that.
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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2010, 07:37:02 PM »
6th - Chain Lightning (20d6 damage at a 6th level slot is CHEAP),
Still, transmutation wins hands down on that.

What, Disintegrate? I never liked it. Against someone with a weak Fort save, you might as well use Flesh to Stone, or even Flesh to Ice a level lower. For damage, it's not good, because if they make the save they take literally nothing, plus you have to hit on ranged touch.

I only like it to eradicate force effects. And even then, Ruby Ray of Reversal is more awesome. Seriously, what's not to like about a spell that can both make a hole in a Wall of Force as well as turn a Druid into a Human with 8 STR/DEX with no save or ranged touch? No SR, even.
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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2010, 07:40:17 PM »
6th - Chain Lightning (20d6 damage at a 6th level slot is CHEAP),
Still, transmutation wins hands down on that.

What, Disintegrate? I never liked it. Against someone with a weak Fort save, you might as well use Flesh to Stone, or even Flesh to Ice a level lower. For damage, it's not good, because if they make the save they take literally nothing, plus you have to hit on ranged touch.
No, Extract Water Elemental.  20d6 untyped damage with a Fort save for half, but if they die, then you get a water elemental for a minute.  No attack roll, either.
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2010, 08:33:04 PM »
Oh, come on.  It's me.
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