Reducing Level Adjustment

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

Is it just me or are the LA buyoff rules somewhat confusing.

I have a character with an LA of +3.  I join a game where the other players are 4th level so I come in as a first level Barbarian who happens to be say, a half dragon.  I begin play with 6,000 xp. 

Fast forward, the rest of the party has reached 12th level, as have I but with only 9 class levels.  I pay the 11,000 xp and have to "replay" level 11, still with 9 class levels, but now an LA of +2.

Fast forward to the characters hitting 17th level.  Party Wizards and Clerics blow their loads at being able to cast Wish and Miracle. I pay 16,000 xp and get to "replay" level 16 and repeat my 15 class levelness again.

Paty hits 19, I repeat the 18th level.  My party hits 20th level while I am still at 19th. 

First question: Is this correct?  Because by the time I get to Class level 20, I will have paid about 45,000 more than my comrades, and be 45,000 xp behind them. How does that work out?

Second question.  I am playing a game where I will play one chaacter with an LA of 0 through he first 13 levels.  In other words when the party hits 14 I bring in a new character with an LA of +3.  That places me at 11 class levels + the 3 LA.  Since I would have presumably paid off 11,000 xp in order to advance, would Ithen start play with 12 class levels and +2 LA? 

What if I wanted to bring in my character when everyone hits 17? That would 15 class levels making me elligible again...Do I start at 16?  Or less?

Trying to figurethis out is hurting my brain. 

Please help!

[weenog]

You do realize that lower-ECL characters receive more XP for overcoming the same challenges, and that every time you drop your ECL by buying off part of your LA you'll be getting a bigger cut of XP until your ECL matches that of the rest again, right?

[Runestar]

This appears more confusing on paper than it actually plays out.

As mentioned above, the lower ECL you are relative to the rest of your party, the more xp you get from each encounter compared to the other players. When you further buy off the rest of your LA at lv17 and 19, you will be even further behind in terms of ECL, and the more xp you will get in return.

The math is a headache to figure out, but you should be less behind than you imagine. By the time you are eligible to buyoff your 2nd LA (when you would be at ECL17), you should be around 2200+xp behind. Pay another 16000xp for 18000xp behind. Then you buy off your 3rd LA when you would be ECL19 (going back to ECL18?). This means that when you are "just" a normal half-dragon fighter18 with no LA, the rest of your party should be lv19, ~ halfway towards lv20?

So you end up being 1-2 lvs behind at the most. If your game extends to epic lvs, you should be lagging by 1 lv at the most.

Clearly, LA buyoff sees the most immediate results with LA of +1, with you catching up by lv14. 

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

Ah.  Thanks, I hadn't realized I'd get more xp for being lower. 

What about the other question:

Party hits 14th.  i bring in new character with LA+3.  What level am I at?

Same question but bringing in the new character when the party hits 17...?

[Rebel7284]

Ah.  Thanks, I hadn't realized I'd get more xp for being lower. 

What about the other question:

Party hits 14th.  i bring in new character with LA+3.  What level am I at?

Same question but bringing in the new character when the party hits 17...?

DM dependant.  I have seen some DMs allow retroactive buyoff (free LA at that point).  Some will not allow it since you never really face the drawback of having said LA.

[Nunkuruji]

There was a thread somewhere that explained it pretty well in graph form.

You do realize that lower-ECL characters receive more XP for overcoming the same challenges, and that every time you drop your ECL by buying off part of your LA you'll be getting a bigger cut of XP until your ECL matches that of the rest again, right?

In a non-LA buyoff game, simply had a -1 level paladin that didn't want to rest & level, just so he could keep getting superior xp, the rest of the party was 

[RobbyPants]

DM dependant.  I have seen some DMs allow retroactive buyoff (free LA at that point).  Some will not allow it since you never really face the drawback of having said LA.

Yeah, this is all contingent on the DM understanding and using the XP table in the DMG.  If you all get the same XP, then it is next to no change at all.

[weenog]

Ah.  Thanks, I hadn't realized I'd get more xp for being lower.  

What about the other question:

Party hits 14th.  i bring in new character with LA+3.  What level am I at?

The simplest way to resolve this without just giving you freebies would be for the DM to give you an amount of XP to work with instead of a set ECL.  Rather than saying "Make your character in the middle of ECL 14," he says "Make your character with 98,000 XP" (enough to be halfway between 14th and 15th level normally).

You'd subtract 11,000 XP for having bought off 1 LA at level 9/ECL 12 -> ECL 11, have 87,000 XP left (slightly below the threshold for 14th level), and wind up submitting your half-dragon barbarian at level 11, ECL 13.  You'd gain slightly more XP than the rest of your party until you exceeded 91,000 XP and hit level 12, ECL 14, and then gain the same XP until they leveled up to 15 ahead of you, at which point you'd be gaining boosted XP again until you caught up again.

Presumably you can work out the numbers for different level adjustments and different APLs yourself.

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

DM dependant.  I have seen some DMs allow retroactive buyoff (free LA at that point).  Some will not allow it since you never really face the drawback of having said LA.

Well wouldn't I start at a lower level?  I.e. Subtract 11000 xp from the level 14 total? That's the part that confuses me, since that would put me at level 13 with a +2 LA.  Would I instead start at level 12?  Or level  xp which is effectively level 11, but I wouldn't have to "replay" the level, having paid off 1 LA? In other words the party is level 14 and I would be ECL 13 but with only a +2 LA now...

[weenog]

It depends on the DM.

Some will give you free shit.  Many won't.  Whether you're just ignoring part or all of your LA completely, stuck with it forever, or paying the price to buy it off, will vary from DM to DM.  You won't get a hard and fast rule that applies universally here.