Author Topic: OOC discussion  (Read 103753 times)

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Sohala

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Re: OOC discussion
« Reply #780 on: January 27, 2011, 09:39:39 PM »
Quote
It's taking a direct line, only the second one can't leave the vortex. The only requirement on charging is a direct line, and you have to threaten the square from the final point of the charge. So, yeah, it's going to hit you. Can't you shield-block one of those attacks? what about the miss chance? Also, you're not dead, and if it weren't dangerous, it wouldn't be a battle. Your character is very strong, like the others, I was sure you'd survive...

Other than that I'm not sure I understand your question...

I thought had tighter restrictions than just a direct line...

Quote
you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent

You basically have to draw a strait line from your position to the charge target. At the point where the line is close enough for you to attack (reach means they don't end up adjacent) you have to stop movement, and you make your attack (or full attack for pouncers).

A second charger from roughly the same location could then be prevented from charging as the first charger most likely blocks the most direct line to target.

Or am I over reading the rules?



Anyway, that post was only partly done, I was getting all the attacks marked hit or miss with DR factored in and thought about the charge rules.

Are you allowing me to shield block attacks on myself? If so I will.



Probably me just forgotting, but have we established if Thultanthar, the City of Shade, has returned from the plane of shadow or not? It is one of the few remaining floating Netheril cities.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 10:00:38 PM by Sohala »
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Brainpiercing

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Re: OOC discussion
« Reply #781 on: January 28, 2011, 07:04:44 AM »
Hmm.... I had him get adjacent to you so that you could hit him back. That was basically to help you. I think we don't have a version of the map now that has the original positions, so I'm not sure I can recreate the precise thing. If you feel I've cheated, I can still recheck and change things.
Also, the direct line that was blocked was the to get out of the swarm. There was a line between the squares the other chimera was in the space its in now.

It also gets iffy when you have a large or larger critter charging. I just handled it so that one of the squares it's filling makes the straight line. That worked for both of them, I think.

In that wording "closest space from which you can attack the opponent", is that the closest space to your original position, or the space closest to the opponent? It's not clear. I might also be mixing up the strict RAW with interpretations we usually use at the table, so...

Now, does shield block only allow blocking for an ally? This gets into the whole "am I my own ally" thing. I think we had it that you can't give yourself actions with White Raven Tactics, or am I misrembering? In any case Shield Block has a number of other clauses, which you can't circumvent anymore. Although, in a PbP...

Ok, let's do it this way: If you feel cheated, you can cheat back. It's too much of a hastle to undo it all.

In any case, do your miss chances on the second guy.

McPoyo

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Re: OOC discussion
« Reply #782 on: January 28, 2011, 10:42:45 AM »
Closest space to attack means he can't leave the vortex,since he was airborne, the closest square would be the one 5ft off the ground.

Also, as a large creature, they cannot avoid the vortex unless they drop prone, per the 3 dimensional section, as their square is 2 tall, not 1.

Also, I have the map of prior to my vortex, and immediately after, want me to send it to you?
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Omen of Peace

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Re: OOC discussion
« Reply #783 on: January 28, 2011, 10:59:51 AM »
BP, penalties stack in general (or do you have a houserule?).
The penalty from Escalating Enfeeblement specifically does not stack with the one from Ray of Enfeeblement, but that's not what the Marc used the first time around, I believe, since it allowed a save for half.
As you implied he must have used a fairly expensive wand to get that effect (spell level 2, CL at least 4) *and* have rolled well.

That said, we should keep moving rather than rules-lawyer, so you can always correct that next round.

edit: Mael had abysmal Init so I'll wait for a few more PC actions before posting his turn.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 11:02:45 AM by Omen of Peace »
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Sohala

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Re: OOC discussion
« Reply #784 on: January 28, 2011, 11:38:30 AM »
Quote
Now, does shield block only allow blocking for an ally? This gets into the whole "am I my own ally" thing. I think we had it that you can't give yourself actions with White Raven Tactics, or am I misrembering? In any case Shield Block has a number of other clauses, which you can't circumvent anymore. Although, in a PbP...

Ok, let's do it this way: If you feel cheated, you can cheat back. It's too much of a hastle to undo it all.
WRT never got a final ruling.

Not so much as cheated at...can they actually do that?
"You think I'm talking about breaking the rules?"
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Brainpiercing

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Re: OOC discussion
« Reply #785 on: January 28, 2011, 12:07:44 PM »
Ok, well... rules lawyering... we just need to be on the same page.

I don't have a house-rule for penalties stacking, I'm using this:
Quote from: SRD

Since these aren't bonuses, the final line doesn't apply. They aren't named types, so no different types. Of course, we can also do it differently, and generally equate bonuses and penalties, in which case they are all untyped, hence stack. Let's do it like that from next round - in effect letting the enfeeblement escalate :).

In the case of the charge, I would like to keep things a bit more flexible, i.e. you can draw the straight line from any square you threaten facing your target, as long as you don't actually move past the target - i.e. the target has to stay in the front hemisphere. Which also means that you don't have to use your full reach for a charge as long as you actually do threaten adjacent squares. I hadn't realized, previously, that the RAW is so strict, and we usually handled it like I said at the table.

Will that cause unsurmountable problems for anyone? As I said I keep up my offer that you can use shield block even though it won't work, normally.

McPoyo

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Re: OOC discussion
« Reply #786 on: January 28, 2011, 12:10:49 PM »
I have no problems with charge working that way, just remember the Vortex issues :)

Also, I'm holding for my turn until the results of the glitterdust are resolved.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Sohala

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Re: OOC discussion
« Reply #787 on: January 28, 2011, 12:17:18 PM »
Post updated with miss chance and shield block, along with reaction.

I don't see any problems with it.

Is there a final word on WRT? Personally I find being able to grant yourself another round of actions acceptable as along as you are not throwing two rounds of spells.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 12:38:31 PM by Sohala »
"You think I'm talking about breaking the rules?"
"No I'm just trying to figure out how far you want them bent."
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Torgthen-The Darkening
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Brainpiercing

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Re: OOC discussion
« Reply #788 on: January 28, 2011, 12:40:41 PM »
I have no problems with charge working that way, just remember the Vortex issues :)

Also, I'm holding for my turn until the results of the glitterdust are resolved.
One of the lions is still in the vortex, the other left it, that's the way I see it. The one in the vortex is blinded by glitterdust, the other isn't.

As to the WRT: It is neither in the spirit of the maneuver, nor in the meaning of the word "ally", that one can be one's own ally. So... in the interest of moving along I'm going to say that in this fight you shouldn't use it on yourself, but I'm open for suggested house-rules that this should in fact work.

Sohala

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Re: OOC discussion
« Reply #789 on: January 28, 2011, 01:21:33 PM »
House-rule talk:

I see it as being a bump up for the martial classes. If a purely ToB character uses WRT on themselves, they are seemingly using the boost is a less efficient way. The right way to use it would be to grant your wizard another action to save or suck the enemy, instead the melee character is getting another few attacks at their foe.

Of course if the same melee character were actual a gish or has UMD and could do the save or suck himself, it basically become the same thing.

If when targeting yourself you were limited to movement and attack options, instead of a full arsenal of arcane power, isn't that rather balanced?

What is worse, a melee who boosts themselves for more damage or a melee who boosts a wizard to take out another creature?
"You think I'm talking about breaking the rules?"
"No I'm just trying to figure out how far you want them bent."
[spoiler]
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Ixen-Elemental Mage Test Game
Torgthen-The Darkening
Eldak-The Neverending Dungeon
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[3.5] Mana Mage

Brainpiercing

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Re: OOC discussion
« Reply #790 on: January 28, 2011, 05:18:48 PM »
There is certainly merit to that line of thought. I'm going to say that a well-built meleer in this game has potential of doing similar effective damage per round as a caster, however, he does have to roll to do it. These enemies are rather very susceptible to save-or-sucks, but that won't always be so.
Well... I'll listen to other opinions.

Thistledown Thurbertaut

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Re: OOC discussion
« Reply #791 on: January 28, 2011, 11:16:14 PM »
Escalting enfeeblement *only* works on creatures already under a strength penalty. I wouldn't have taken the invocation and paid all that money for a wand otherwise...

Omen of Peace

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Re: OOC discussion
« Reply #792 on: January 28, 2011, 11:50:56 PM »
I'm for keeping WRT ally-only. Note that its range is 10ft, so if you are a meleer and you target a caster either you are far from the frontline or he's close to it...
The maneuver is still awesome for martial classes when the meleers use it on each other. :)
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Brainpiercing

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Re: OOC discussion
« Reply #793 on: January 29, 2011, 09:34:34 AM »
Escalting enfeeblement *only* works on creatures already under a strength penalty. I wouldn't have taken the invocation and paid all that money for a wand otherwise...
Yes, I know. Well, with a total -19 to Str and -2 to hit it would have probably not hit at all. Deduct 6 from the AC hit and 3 or 6 (from the primary dragon heads) from the damage. I was pretty sure not stacking was RAW. Most penalties don't specify a type, so mostly they will stack, just not with itself.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 09:36:36 AM by Brainpiercing »

Thistledown Thurbertaut

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Re: OOC discussion
« Reply #794 on: January 31, 2011, 11:31:30 PM »
« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 11:33:04 PM by Thistledown Thurbertaut »

Brainpiercing

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Re: OOC discussion
« Reply #795 on: February 01, 2011, 06:39:33 AM »
Who are we waiting for, by the way? the MARC had his round 2 action already, as had Doyle. That leaves a few others... I'm going to post the dires after Torgthen, as before.

Omen of Peace

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Re: OOC discussion
« Reply #796 on: February 01, 2011, 10:04:04 AM »
Ugh, I forgot to use another Command (well, I'm still undecided on whether I should). I will make another post for that if I do (posting at work means getting interrupted, strangely enough...).

OOC, I'm hoping the Marc turns Gargantuan and trips it when it tries to flee.
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McPoyo

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Re: OOC discussion
« Reply #797 on: February 01, 2011, 11:01:30 AM »
Sorry, things have been hectic with work.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Omen of Peace

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Re: OOC discussion
« Reply #798 on: February 01, 2011, 11:58:10 AM »
Erm, actually due to the stacking of fear effects it would be cowering (=shaken+panicked) anyway since it failed its save, so it's not going anywhere. Isul can use his spell on someone else if he so chooses.
Yep, I'm rediscovering some of the rules...

I'm saying this without access to the Rules Compendium, so it'd be great if someone could double-check.
The Malazan Book of the Fallen, Steven Erikson

McPoyo

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Re: OOC discussion
« Reply #799 on: February 01, 2011, 12:01:27 PM »
He's cowering now that I've grappled him. He could flee, before, so he wouldn't be cowering. He can't flee now, though.

And close range precludes hitting anyone else.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]