OOC discussion

[Smudgy]

Oh yeah..... Stupid charge modifiers...crap.

As for retraining, I did decide not to do it, for the sake of not complicating things. There's always other ways, I just like kicking ass.

[Surreal]

And Surreal, the fluff text wasn't what made it difficult. It was jsut the frickin number of things I had to pay attention to.

I've always gone by the "smaller is better" route for PbP. One ridiculous battle I was in took place on an airship with three levels, about 5 active players (plus 3 more with leadership), the entire frickin crew of the airship that we tried to keep alive (at least 60), and probably 100 little demons scattered throughout with about a half dozen bigger nasties. Even with concentrated efforts to keep the pace going early on, that battle took over three months and we eventually just abandoned it because we weren't even halfway through.

AND can anyone tell me what happens when you bull-rush someone into another person WITHOUT using the Domino Rush option from Shock-trooper? I seem to remember the bull-rush victim was automatically sent prone by entering another creature's square, but I don't seem to find that in the SRD, it only says that if the bull-rush is resisted and the pusher pushed back into an occupied square. It's not that the domino-rush option isn't available or good, it's just that it's not nearly as certain a trip as an absolutely certain trip.

I don't think the bull rush victim automatically goes prone... that would almost be better than domino rush which requires a trip check (although you get it against both the victim and the one(s) he bumped into). I would rule it one of three ways...
i) the bull rush stops when you encounter an obstacle/person
ii) free trip attempt against just the target
iii) make a bull rush check against the new guy as well, total distance traveled is the shortest amongst your targets (so if you can bull rush A a total of 15 feet, you push him into puny B who is directly behind him, your check against B allows a total of 20' of movement, but you can only continue for another 10' max)

That all said, here are a couple excerpts from here... http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm

But I'm pretty sure this only applies to voluntary movement

I suppose this could be option #4

[Brainpiercing]

Hmm your suggestions are overall ok, with the exception of iii), because that would get very strong with lines of targets.
So in any case I made the mistake of letting the rushes end in occupied squares. To me that sort of made sense to have the targets squeezing in those squares. Well, I should do it differently in the future, then.

With dungeoncrashing creatures into others of similar size I would suggest giving half-damage to both, which is the most sensible way of handling this undefined case.

[Surreal]

I have another question for you guys: Under what circumstances can one do a Limited Charge? Is the absolute condition to only HAVE one standard or move action?

From here... http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#charge

Also see the Table: Full Round Actions... http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsincombat.htm#fullRoundActions
specifically footnote #2

[Brainpiercing]

Thanks a lot. Now I hope I'll be able to finish round 2 this evening. My g/f is busy, so I think I should be able to.

[Smudgy]

I don't think the captain can do that. The range of White Raven Tactics is only 10ft, so he'd have to use it on soldier 4.

[Brainpiercing]

I don't think the captain can do that. The range of White Raven Tactics is only 10ft, so he'd have to use it on soldier 4.

ok, damn
well soldier 4 is dazed, then there are no targets. He could have used it on spellcaster 2 before moving I think, but that would change too many things. So just forget about it. I'll edit.

[Brainpiercing]

Smudgy I noticed you've got your fly speed down as too high on your sheet. Haste doesn't add 30ft to base speed and all others derive from this, it explicitly adds 30ft to all movement modes (excluding 5ft steps ). So your flight is only 90ft/rd. (Yes I know I MIGHt have worded it so in my reworked Half-dragon template, that you always get double your land speed, but it's double base land speed in this case.)
However, that should still be enough, since that gives you 180ft range on a charge, and my rough count for the distance you charged came to about 30 squares. So all is well.

However, I am inclined to calculate reach properly when used in 3 dimensions. Use the reach circle diagrams I've been using for reference. Since you have your reach as a sphere, draw a vertical line at 15ft distance from your character circle when flying 15ft up. Measure the vertical squares (rounded approximatey correctly) until the line crosses the circle. That would put you at around 15ft horizontal reach for creatures lying prone on the ground when flying 15 feet up yourself. Against a large enemey standing approximately 10ft tall you lose approximately nothing, as you draw a line five feet away from you, and the top-most square is still mostly included in the circle.
What do you guys think?

[Smudgy]

That kind of confused me a bit. Not the Haste thing, that makes sense, just the reach. I just used the Pythagorean theorem for it.

So.... (a x a) + (b x b) = (c x c)

               | \__                                                  a. 15x15=225
a. 15ft up  |      \___   c. 25ft reach                       b.  20x20=400
               |________\__                                        c.  25x25=625

               b. 20ft away

Behold, my flawlessly made triangle of wonder.

Anyways, that's how I was figuring it when I made my actions.  I guess I'm not sure if it's correct now by what you've said above. But if Agnak needs to be moved at all to be able to hit the Hezrou, or if some of the stuff that I said was in my reach isn't, just say so and I'll probably figure it out.

[Brainpiercing]

That... umm... seems to be correct. Now why don't my circles work?

[Smudgy]

Note, this is just how I read it, and I'm not a strong math student, so bear with me in case I slip over the edge of reason at all.

However, I am inclined to calculate reach properly when used in 3 dimensions. Use the reach circle diagrams I've been using for reference. Since you have your reach as a sphere, draw a vertical line at 15ft distance from your character circle when flying 15ft up. Measure the vertical squares (rounded approximatey correctly) until the line crosses the circle. That would put you at around 15ft horizontal reach for creatures lying prone on the ground when flying 15 feet up yourself. Against a large enemey standing approximately 10ft tall you lose approximately nothing, as you draw a line five feet away from you, and the top-most square is still mostly included in the circle.
What do you guys think?

From what I gathered reading that, you were measuring the height of Agnak from the ground in concordance with the limits of his reach.  While they do increase and decrease exponentially, they don't do so in equal measurements. Beyond that I'm not sure what the rest of what you said meant, if it were more visual I could better understand it (though it'd be a problem drawing 3d objects in posts with lines and dashes...).  I don't think the enemies being prone is of consequence, unless we get into real physics, which don't mix well with the magic of D&D physics. As for enemy height, that should only matter, I think, I think, when Agnak himself can't reach the ground the enemy stands on, from which points we add in the foe's height to the equation. Maybe these problems stem from the fact we're using circles when D&D uses squares, beats me.

As I said, math isn't my strong point, but I'm pretty sure the Pythagorean Theorem works fine in this situation. Then again, this could be a question for the simple question / simple answer thread, where more math or D&D reach knowledge savvy members can figure it out.

[Surreal]

I would use pythagoras myself, or really just eyeball it because keeping track of 3d movement on a 2d spreadsheet whilst in a big battle is just a big pain in the butt. I honestly couldn't understand your circle/vertical line thing at all BP.

p.s. I'm run an afterschool math program for kids, so I would *hope* my math skills are sharp

[Brainpiercing]

Just so you guys know: I'll hopefully manage to finalize round 3 this evening. Couldn't face it this morning.

[Smudgy]

Surreal, do you have any way to heal the Lieutenant? I do, but I'd rather finish off the Hezrou and a Vrock with a full attack before attending to the Lieutenant.

[Surreal]

About the best I can do is a heal check to stabilize him. The only other options I have are to cast rage on him which might give him enough Con to regain consciousness, or restoration if he lost Con somehow.

edit: or I could pick him up and carry him away

[Brainpiercing]

I've clarified a bit of the polymorph rules once more.

I also have a question: How do maneuvers and attack ACTIONS interact? I've been loathe using Strikes for both the Captain and the Lieutenant because of the undefined interaction between the Hydra attack action and maneuvers. My suggestion is as follows, but it's specific to the Hydra or any other creature which can make a ton of attacks with one attack action (and it doesn't make the Hydra any weaker, I guess):

A maneuver that specifies making one or more melee attacks allows the hydra to attack with all heads, but treats these attacks as a volley, i.e. only ONE attack (OR the number of attacks specified by the maneuver) gain the benefits of the maneuver. A hydra can never make iterative attacks, including altered iterative progressions, not even with a Mouthpick weapon or unarmed strikes, unless it gives up its ability to attack with all heads. It receives no benefit from using multiple Mouthpick weapons unless it has two- or multi-weapon fighting, and in every case gives up its ability to attack with all heads. It even cannot use its heads as standard natural weapons in a full attack sequence! It also can never make more attacks during its turn than it has heads, unless it can make two FULL-ATTACK actions for any reason.

A hydra making sneak attacks must treat its attacks as a volley.

Unfortunately the hydra once again breaks my un-brokenated polymorph. Oh well, as long as its only that. To put it in perspective, Agnak has been dealing approximately the same effective damage, at least with full-attacks.

Oh, and, Surreal, one thing I wanted to add: You DO realize who really won this fight, I hope.

[Surreal]

I'll try to update later tonight or tomorrow. I haven't even had a chance to look at the map yet. I don't think there's too much left that I can do other than carry the lieutenant out of harm's way (can I even do that?) or just charge something with my club (which would only do maybe 18 damage at best).

Oh, and, Surreal, one thing I wanted to add: You DO realize who really won this fight, I hope.

Uh, is this one of those metaphorical questions? wherein the demons have snuck around and killed the townsfolk? or perhaps sapped our spirit...

[Brainpiercing]

Uh, is this one of those metaphorical questions? wherein the demons have snuck around and killed the townsfolk? or perhaps sapped our spirit...

Uh, no, I just keep thinking about how it would have gone without your mass buffs. Arguably Enlarge person wouldn't even have worked on all those soldiers, due to them all being Monstrous Humanoids.

The question was sort of out of context, I don't remember why it was in THAT place exactly. I think I wanted to make sure that you don't feel your contribution was too small.

[Surreal]

Ah s'okay, I understand. I didn't build Mag to be a big melee bruiser anyways (though he is relatively a mini-tank).  Heck, considering his friendly buffing and skill set, he's practically a bard except without the music.

Uh, no, I just keep thinking about how it would have gone without your mass buffs. Arguably Enlarge person wouldn't even have worked on all those soldiers, due to them all being Monstrous Humanoids.

Which is why as you recall we changed it to "Mass Enlarge Monster" in the houserules section

[Brainpiercing]

Of course, that's why I said "person", which means that no other caster in that place could have buffed either Agnak or the soldiers to the same extent.