Author Topic: Power Scaling Methods  (Read 1678 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

vermithrx

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 64
    • Email
Power Scaling Methods
« on: May 17, 2010, 03:40:25 AM »
'Positive' Static Advancement: Best with low values of 'A'.[spoiler]
All attacks and defenses scale at a rate equal to Character Level (or half that) with bonuses depending on class, as follows:
Good:      +A
Moderate:  +A/2
Poor:      0
Good:      +10
Moderate:  +5
Poor:      0

MulticlassingGestalt:
Average the bonuses of each side of the gestalt before rounding.

Multiclassing GestaltPros:
  • Easy to calculate.
  • Perfectly smooth progression at all levels.

Cons:
  • Difficult to use with multiclassing.
  • Everything needs to be recalculated every level when multiclassing.
  • Difficult to balance at low levels with the current abilities available and prerequisite structure within D&D 3.x (unless 'A' is very low).
[/spoiler]

Differential Advancement:[spoiler]
All attacks and defenses scale based on class as follows:
Good:      Class level
Moderate:  Class level x (Character Level)/(Character Level + A/2)
Poor:      Class level x (Character Level)/(Character Level + A)
Good:      Class Level
Moderate:  Class Level x (Character Level)/(Character Level + 5)
Poor:      Class Level x (Character Level)/(Character Level + 10)

This creates the following progression:[spoiler]
Level       Good     Moderate   Poor
1             1         0         0
2             2         0         0
3             3         1         0
4             4         1         1
5             5         2         1
6             6         3         2
7             7         4         2
8             8         4         3
9             9         5         4
10           10         6         5
11           11         7         5
12           12         8         6
13           13         9         7
14           14        10         8
15           15        11         9
16           16        12         9
17           17        13        10
18           18        14        11
19           19        15        12
20           20        16        13

40           40        35        32

60           60        55        51

80           80        75        71

100         100        95        90

1000       1000       995       990

10000     10000      9995      9990
[/spoiler]

Multiclassing:
Add the bonuses from each class before rounding.

Gestalt:
Average the bonuses of each side of the gestalt before rounding.

Multiclassing Gestalt:
First, on each side of the gestalt, add the bonuses from each class. Then average the bonuses of each side of the gestalt before rounding.

Pros:
  • Easy to use with multiclassing.
  • Easy to use with gestalt.
  • Quick differentiation at low levels. (Though you can slow differentiation by replacing all instances of "Character Level" with "Character Level + X", if you desire a smoother progression.)

Cons:
  • Everything needs to be re-calculated every level.
[/spoiler]

Fractional Advancement with Feat Adjustment: Best with high values of 'A'.[spoiler]
All attacks and defenses scale based on class as follows:
Good:      Class Level
Moderate:  3/4 Class Level
Poor:      1/2 Class Level
Heroism (Placeholder)
Benefit: Increase the numerator and denominator of all attack and defense bonuses that would normally scale at 1/2 level by +1 and those that would normally scale at 3/4 level by +2.
Special: This feat can be taken multiple times. Its effects stack.


This creates the following progression:[spoiler]
Level       Good     Moderate   Poor
1             1         0         0
2             2         1         1
3             3         2         1
4             4         3         2
5             5         3         2
6             6         4         3
7             7         5         3
8             8         6         4
9             9         6         4

10           10         8         6
11           11         9         7
12           12        10         8
13           13        10         8
14           14        11         9
15           15        12        10
16           16        13        10
17           17        14        11
18           18        15        12
19           19        15        12

20           20        17        15

40           40        36        33

60           60        56        52

80           80        76        72

100         100        95        91

1000       1000       995       990

10000     10000      9995      9990
[/spoiler]

Multiclassing:
Add the bonuses from each class before rounding.

Gestalt:
Average the bonuses of each side of the gestalt before rounding.

Multiclassing Gestalt:
First, on each side of the gestalt, add the bonuses from each class. Then average the bonuses of each side of the gestalt before rounding.

Pros:
  • Easy to use with multiclassing.
  • Easy to use with gestalt.

Cons:
  • Everything needs to be re-calaulated once every 'A' levels.
  • Sudden jumps in effectiveness every 'A' levels.
[/spoiler]

Notes:
These methods are intended to be applied to all saves/defenses, base attack bonus, and any other numerical measure of relative power such as caster, initiator, manifester and meldshaper levels. The power of options available to a given character and their prerequisites are to be based on such values, but not the flavor or number of those options (as that is what classes are for).

The "Good", "Moderate" and "Poor" designations are provided above as examples of the upper limit, lower limit and mean respectively for a given value of 'A', though any values between 'A' and 0 are acceptable.

Where a class normally would not advance a scaling value under the current ruleset, it now advances the value at a rate of "Poor" as demonstrated above.

For classes that partially advance a scaling value under the current ruleset, on levels where it would normally advance the value it does so at a rate of "Good"; and on levels where it wouldn't it does so at a rate of "Poor", as demonstrated above (feel free to instead determine a value between 'A' and 0 that would make this advancement smooth if you so desire).

The higher the value of 'A', the closer to rocket tag the game becomes.
The lower the value of 'A', the less differentiation is possible between characters.

What do you think are reasonable values for 'A'?
« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 11:41:32 PM by vermithrx »

vermithrx

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 64
    • Email
Re: Power Scaling Methods
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2010, 09:19:10 PM »
So no one has any comments to make? No problems with any of the systems above I may have missed (hidden pitfalls, places where the math doesn't add up, other pros and cons of each system I've overlooked)? No other systems that could work that other people have come up with?

I ask because I'm considering incorporating one of these into my house rules (with attendant tweaks elsewhere) and would like to know if there's anything else I might need to watch out for.

Endarire

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2171
    • Email
Re: Power Scaling Methods
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2010, 12:41:33 AM »
This is a lot to take in.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

vermithrx

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 64
    • Email
Re: Power Scaling Methods
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2010, 11:14:45 PM »
New method:

'Zero-Sum' Static Advancement: Best with low values of 'A'.Multiclassing:
Add the bonuses and penalties from each class before rounding.

Gestalt:
Average the bonuses of each side of the gestalt before rounding.

Multiclassing Gestalt:
Add the bonuses and penalties from each class, then average each side of the gestalt before rounding.

Pros:
  • Easy to calculate.
  • Perfectly smooth progression at all levels.

Cons:
  • Everything needs to be recalculated every level.
  • Difficult to balance at low levels with the current abilities available and prerequisite structure within D&D 3.x unless 'A' is very low (better than non-zero sum, though).
[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 11:45:10 PM by vermithrx »

Metis

  • Noob
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Power Scaling Methods
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2010, 07:14:32 PM »
I don't think the d20 core mechanic is any good once you're past the 20-30 range.  With all of these things, you run off the RNG whenever the levels are a bit off.  The difference between level 15 and 20 is not the same as the difference between level 215 and 220.  With all of these, a level 1,000 party would be no match against something at level 1031.

vermithrx

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 64
    • Email
Re: Power Scaling Methods
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2010, 12:17:44 AM »
The difference between level 15 and 20 is not the same as the difference between level 215 and 220.
This is currently true for the games available. The methods I present above are supposed to change that, at least in terms of numerical class advantages, though they do nothing to balance the individual options available to characters of a given level. That will take a lot more work.

With all of these, a level 1,000 party would be no match against something at level 1031.
True, but a level 1 party is no match against something level 32 either, and that's the same difference. The overall goal here is that two characters of equivalent level (which is supposed to represent equivalent challenge), no matter the class, racial, tactical or strategic differences between them, will always have a chance at both affecting each other with and avoiding all of each others' abilities (a.k.a. are on the same RNG). This is not currently true for the games available.

I don't think the d20 core mechanic is any good once you're past the 20-30 range. With all of these things, you run off the RNG whenever the levels are a bit off.
That's what these methods are designed to address, actually. No matter what changes you make, the RNG will break for any d20 encounter in which the difference in level between characters involved is greater than 18 - Z (x2, if using a static method with 'half' instead of 'full' level advancement), where 'Z' equals the greatest possible combined bonuses and/or penalties available to any character of the levels involved.

If you want characters to be capable of threatening a broad range of levels, then you need to make sure 'Z' is low. The value 'A' I refer to in the methods above is just one small part of 'Z'.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 12:26:52 AM by vermithrx »