Is there a min max section for the paladin?

[benjiamon]

I know they are far from the most optimised class but has anyone ever tried to do an optimisation on the paladin?

[Flay Crimsonwind]

You mean a handbook? I believe there was one, but I don't think it got transfered here from the old wiz boards.

As for paladins, they are the basis for the ubermount builds, and there's some nifty combo with sword of the arcane order, a feat from the book i-cant-remember-which, which expands the hell out of their spell list (I recall with wizard/sorc spells), making them a nifty little gish engine. Also, any cha heavy gish builds (or not, if you can spare the -2 CL) can benefit nicely from their primary stat to all saves and some other nifty things.

What specifically did you want to know about pallys?

[Negative Zero]

Your best bet is to search the forum for the word Paladin. We don't really have sections for optimization. The only real organization here is in the form of Handbooks. Googling "Paladin Handbook" with quotes intact is a good start.

[Anklebite]

generally, it involves either charisma stacking, serenity wisdom stacking, divine feat abuse or charging builds. oh, and battle blessing+sword of the arcane order.

[BowenSilverclaw]

generally, it involves either charisma stacking, serenity wisdom stacking, divine feat abuse or charging builds. oh, and battle blessing+sword of the arcane order.

Or just going Cleric/Prestige Paladin (with Battle Blessing and Sword of the Arcana Order)

Sorry, I had to

[Littha]

It hasn't been moved here yet but there is a paladin handbook:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870162/The_Paladins_Handbook_--_2007?post_id=338342914#338342914

[Prime32]

It hasn't been moved here yet but there is a paladin handbook:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870162/The_Paladins_Handbook_--_2007?post_id=338342914#338342914

Oh Dictum?...

[McPoyo]

Spellthief 1/Mystic Fire Knight (Champions of Valor 45) Paladin 5/Unseen Seer 2/Abjurant Champion 1/Knight of the Weave 1/Ultimate Magus 10
Uses Sword of the Arcane Order at 6th to prepare wizard spells in paladin slots, qualifying for prereqs requiring arcane preparation from a spellbook, as well as prepared divine casting. Master Spellthief taken at anytime allows for caster level buffing for paladin casting, and ultimate magus always advances paladin casting as the primary thanks to Knight of the Weave's caster level additions. Battle Blessing allows all paladin spells to be free quickened, while Knight of the Weave spell slots allow for random 1-off spells and ultimate magus metamagic boosting. Use the advanced learning from Unseen Seer to grab Hunter's Eye, PHB2.
Caster level breakdown interpretation that doesn't go infinite:
Paladin: (5 paladin + 2 unseen seer + 1 abjurant champion + 10 ultimate magus)/2 because paladin caster level is halved +2 Mystic Fire knight ability + 4 spellpower + 4 practiced spellcaster = "19", plus KotW's caster level thanks to mystic fire knight making the actual caster level total 50.
Knight of the Weave: 1 Knight + 7 ultimate magus + "19" paladin (Not including the KotW levels, since then it becomes a recursive infinity loop) + 4 spell power = 31

Master spellthief adds all arcane caster levels to any spellthief casting levels to equal the caster level for all arcane spells. 0 Spellthief + 50 Paladin + 31 Knight of the Weave = 81 CL. Any item or ability that grants a + to caster levels, if applicable to both Paladin and Knight of the Weave, nets a +3 gain to caster level. If it only applies to Paladin, it nets a +2 gain to caster level. If it applies to Knight of the Weave only, it nets a +1 gain to caster level.

Granted, this doesn't actually use more than 5 levels of paladin, but it's a paladin of a magic goddess (Mystra, required for KotW and Mystic Fire Knight both) who outcasts wizards from 2.5 spell lists and gets free metamagic, not to mention every spell freely quickened if you use Battlecasting for your paladin slots.

[Rebel7284]

AFAIK, Paladin Level is not halved due to Sword of the Arcane Order.

[McPoyo]

I thought so too, but I cannot find that clause now, aside from the "If you have wizard levels, add paladin and ranger class levels to it to determine total wizard level" one.

Also, my math was wrong, it's 82 CL as listed above, since that should be a 1 for spellthief, according to the way the feat is worded. Practiced spellcaster to KotW adds another +8 to the build, for a total caster level of 90, pre-gear, which nets 30 dice of sneak attack from Hunter's Eye to each attack. Not bad.

Also, Wings of Flurry.

[Anklebite]

you have no idea how damn proud it makes me to see my spellthief-UM idea being used as the answer to every thread. 

[McPoyo]

Worst part was I had forgotten what MFK did, and the original caster level was something like 41 because of it, not 90.

[Jopustopin]

Play a Crusader and call him a Paladin.

[Rebel7284]

Play a Crusader and call him a Paladin.

Play a cleric/crusader/ruby knight vindicator and call him a paladin. 

[Havok4]

Play a Crusader and call him a Paladin.

Play a cleric/crusader/ruby knight vindicator and call him a paladin. 

This is really the best way to go about being a paladin. Some refluffing may be necessary.

[PhaedrusXY]

Try this instead? I'm playing a crusader/cleric/prestige paladin in a PbP game and so far it seems to be shaping up well.

[Unbeliever]

Try this instead? I'm playing a crusader/cleric/prestige paladin in a PbP game and so far it seems to be shaping up well.

Always a good recommendation.  Did you go battle blessing?  I've been toying w/ a character along those lines for a little while, and was tempted to go w/ the shield charge/bashing feats. 

[PhaedrusXY]

Try this instead? I'm playing a crusader/cleric/prestige paladin in a PbP game and so far it seems to be shaping up well.

Always a good recommendation.  Did you go battle blessing?  I've been toying w/ a character along those lines for a little while, and was tempted to go w/ the shield charge/bashing feats.  

At the moment he's only a cleric 4/crusader 1, but I do plan to take Battle Blessing next level for sure, and then Holy Mount at 9th so my cleric levels stack for my mount. I will take the Drakkensteed mount option, which is so much better than the standard warhorse that it is ridiculous. It also fits my character thematically.

Here is a post where I hash out what progression I plan to take with him. I had originally planned to dip into Church Inquisitor and then head into Ruby Knight Vindicator, but the skill prereqs for the latter are absolute murder. Since the game is only planned to go till like 11th or 12th level, I decided it wasn't worth it. So the plan now is to go Cleric 4/Crusader1/PrPal 2/Crus+1/PrPal+1/Cleric +3. The second crusader level is for Thicket of Blades, and I like the idea of having a decent mount even though it probably isn't optimal unless you go with an uber-mount build or something. I'm also losing several caster levels, which of course is a "no no", but this is a real character and not a theoretical one. Sometimes I go with flavor/coolness/whatever instead of what's most optimal.

[Banaticus]

Cleric 3/Druid 1/Church Inquisitor (Complete Divine) 10/whatever...

The druid level gives you an animal companion mount.  The rest gives you great spellcasting abilities, turn undead stuff, mental fortitude (can't be affected by mind-affecting spells/abilities), the ability to not only detect evil but detect lies and even force people to tell the truth... Paladin is a weak class.  It always has been and unless you mix in something like Devoted Tracker to designate your paladin special mount as an animal companion plus multiclass all over the place, it's just sort of a weaker class.  Look into the Halfling Outrider, though you have to be a halfling.

[ninjarabbit]

paladin2/sorcerer4/spellsword1/abjurantchampion5/sacredexorcist8: 16 BAB, 18 CL, still has turn undead