Psycarnum Infusion + Midnight X, ROUND TWO

[snakeman830]

One more point: Shape Soulmeld.

Any psionic character that takes this feat can have an essentia receptacle while having no essentia.  He can, however, use Psycarnum Infusion to treat the receptacle as full.

While Soulmelds don't have the 1/day limitation, it's pretty obvious that the character is never investing essentia because he has none to invest.

[Sohala]

One more point: Shape Soulmeld.

Any psionic character that takes this feat can have an essentia receptacle while having no essentia.  He can, however, use Psycarnum Infusion to treat the receptacle as full.

While Soulmelds don't have the 1/day limitation, it's pretty obvious that the character is never investing essentia because he has none to invest.

Discussed.

[snakeman830]

Must have missed it despite reading the whole thread.  Eh, I blame it on being over several days.

EDIT: just searched the entire thread and did't see it.

[Sohala]

I didn't use the same words, but I brought up the topic of someone without any essentia.

How would, under your interpretation, a person with zero essentia (none at all), invest essentia into anything, be it a soulmeld, incarnum feat, class feature, or any other incarnum receptacle?

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

Finally he has seen the light. We can all stop trying.

I agreed with you on part A

He agrees that Psycarnum Infusion doesn't need to involve any form of investment or actual essentia to work.

Um. I didn't change my mind. Part A (on 4th read) doesn't mention the condition of the investment or non-investment of essentia.

Ah I see why you thought that. Here's why I think A is correct (but probably for different reasons than you)

You fill up that receptacle slightly. Then you use PSI to make the feat provide the investment for up to its max. Then when you try to take all the essentia out, the part provided by PSI doesn't add into your essentia pool, though the one you put in initially does since this did come from a source of bonus essentia.

Furthermore, during that one turn the receptacle is still maxed out after you take your initially invested (the part from you, not PSI) out because of the 'Until the start of your next turn' part.

But anyways. Any headway on the last part of my previous post, guys?

[Sohala]

Finally he has seen the light. We can all stop trying.

I agreed with you on part A

He agrees that Psycarnum Infusion doesn't need to involve any form of investment or actual essentia to work.

Um. I didn't change my mind. Part A (on 4th read) doesn't mention the condition of the investment or non-investment of essentia.

Ah I see why you thought that. Here's why I think A is correct (but probably for different reasons than you)

You fill up that receptacle slightly. Then you use PSI to make the feat provide the investment for up to its max. Then when you try to take all the essentia out, the part provided by PSI doesn't add into your essentia pool, though the one you put in initially does since this did come from a source of bonus essentia.

Furthermore, during that one turn the receptacle is still maxed out after you take your initially invested (the part from you, not PSI) out because of the 'Until the start of your next turn' part.

But anyways. Any headway on the last part of my previous post, guys?

Two essentia are invested before, cap is two essentia, then PSI is used, no essentia is invested. Two essentia are taken out, the effect of two essentia still being in there is still happening, PSI has already been activated, so you can't say I am investing essentia now, but you might be able to argue that PSI generates essentia, I still stand there is no essentia gained from it, but with this we see that PSI does not need to invest to work, which was the question.

[Sohala]

Thought just came to me, where are we investing essentia from?

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

slight thread necromancy at request of PM.

the answer to the above question is I don't know

the one above that I must confess I started to get ADD with this topic and lost the motivation to follow (always happens to me after about 20 replies in the same thread)

however by letting the topic on the back-burning I finally found the RAI that could convince me that my reading is incorrect: voila

Notice that the summaries are very mechanically accurate but this version doesn't have the pesky "as if it had essentia invested in it" part

so... if everything works then the only dirty handbook fix problem is the possible stacking bonus pp