Author Topic: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!  (Read 6904 times)

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Anklebite

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #40 on: May 04, 2010, 06:32:56 AM »
Do the Tomes have a reputation for being cheesy/too powerful?  That's too bad.  I mean...I love the new Monk/Drunken Master classes...but I would have hoped they could hold the same level of respectability and acceptance as Onewinged4ngel's amazing rebalanced Paladin Class...
it doesn't need a rep for it, just look at the bloody classes. frank and K designed those classes to be on par with highly optimized wizards and druids.

that is NOT what you should aim for, balance-wise. optimizing druids and wizards is an absolute metric fuckton of paperwork, and is something that should never ever be necessary outside of theoretical debates.

making that the baseline for classes who are that strong out of the box? how about no.
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Thistledown Thurbertaut

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #41 on: May 04, 2010, 07:03:58 AM »
optimizing druids and wizards is an absolute metric fuckton of paperwork, and is something that should never ever be necessary outside of theoretical debates.

You mean like this? http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7802.0  :lmao

Anklebite

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #42 on: May 04, 2010, 08:02:52 AM »
optimizing druids and wizards is an absolute metric fuckton of paperwork, and is something that should never ever be necessary outside of theoretical debates.

You mean like this? http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7802.0  :lmao
despite joking, you did in fact prove my point.  :D
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mans0011

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #43 on: May 04, 2010, 08:42:51 AM »
I don't have time to read the whole thread, but I suggest if you pick up cloistered cleric, be sure to get the travel domain and trade it for travel devotion. Being able to move your speed as a swift action each round for a minute is... nice.
OOC-well for that matter he could just ride on my sword, that's about 15' ;)
OOC - That's what SHE said!  But, otherwise, that works for me, if you guys are willing.

Nameless Void

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #44 on: May 04, 2010, 09:02:02 AM »
I don't see what is so bad with Drunken Master.. Um, well actually I do.. Never mind that previous statement

Drop Mr Goliath and go Half-Ogre. Try a mix of Monk 2/Fighter(Dungeoncrasher Variant) 6/WarHulk 3/Hulking Hurler 2/Drunken Master 5. If you're allowed to buy off LA then you have two more levels to play with.

Slam people against walls, pick them up and bash other people with them, or throw them away - its your playground. Enjoy :)
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Optimizing is the antithesis of roleplaying because it takes focus away from the important parts of the game.

Thistledown Thurbertaut

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #45 on: May 04, 2010, 09:17:16 AM »
The War Hulk loss of skills really hurts...no more spot checks!  Still, that sounds like one scary mean drunk!

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #46 on: May 04, 2010, 09:37:23 AM »
Its more that Tome stuff is balanced to Core spellcasting, which is broken. Tome stuff isn't as broken as Core spellcasting, but its generally as powerful as non cheesy spellcasting.

If you have a mainstay spellcaster in your party (Druid, Wizard, Cleric, Sorcerer), then its balanced. If somehow your entire group is fighter types, then its overpowered. But that's because fighter types in general are very underpowered (unless they are Warblades, Crusaders, or Swordsages).
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Unbeliever

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #47 on: May 04, 2010, 03:02:44 PM »
Its more that Tome stuff is balanced to Core spellcasting, which is broken. Tome stuff isn't as broken as Core spellcasting, but its generally as powerful as non cheesy spellcasting.

If you have a mainstay spellcaster in your party (Druid, Wizard, Cleric, Sorcerer), then its balanced. If somehow your entire group is fighter types, then its overpowered. But that's because fighter types in general are very underpowered (unless they are Warblades, Crusaders, or Swordsages).
I'd say the Tomes are balanced against a particular brand of Core spellcasting, one that really pushes the limits and also has few house rules/gentleman's agreements about what is acceptable.  I also find their general sense that wizards are throwing quickened (or twinned, etc.) spells all the time a bit of a reach.

So, I'd say it's balanced against hard-core, rapacious optimizing, but too powerful for practical optimization, which is where I feel my groups (w/ some variation) are. 

Bozwevial

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #48 on: May 04, 2010, 06:30:46 PM »
Tome material is not terribly out of line with what you'd expect for that level of power--and really, it is nice to actually have something fun and useful as opposed to your nth bonus to attack/damage/trip/namecalling/what have you. If I have two players of equal ability in my group, and one's playing a melee class while the other plays a wizard, I'm certainly willing to let them use Tome material, because that way if they both put in equal amounts of optimization, they still come out relatively close in terms of potency.

Honestly, I've thought of running an all Tome game from time to time. If I can find a group who won't have the kneejerk reaction "Why doesn't the wizard get any boosts? This is broken!" I certainly will.

Thistledown Thurbertaut

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #49 on: May 04, 2010, 06:39:13 PM »
Tome material is not terribly out of line with what you'd expect for that level of power--and really, it is nice to actually have something fun and useful as opposed to your nth bonus to attack/damage/trip/namecalling/what have you. If I have two players of equal ability in my group, and one's playing a melee class while the other plays a wizard, I'm certainly willing to let them use Tome material, because that way if they both put in equal amounts of optimization, they still come out relatively close in terms of potency.

Honestly, I've thought of running an all Tome game from time to time. If I can find a group who won't have the kneejerk reaction "Why doesn't the wizard get any boosts? This is broken!" I certainly will.
:D ...and I shall be first in line with an intoxicated brawler!  ...although this is one of those characters I'd rather play tabletop than write for... (prob with a flask of rum for some method acting :cheers

Nameless Void

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #50 on: May 04, 2010, 06:52:00 PM »
The War Hulk loss of skills really hurts...no more spot checks!  Still, that sounds like one scary mean drunk!

Bah.. You're in a Tavern. Who needs spot checks?  ;)
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mans0011

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #51 on: May 05, 2010, 09:11:29 PM »
Let's take a silly example: Glitterdust vs Power Attack. A Wizard, at level 5, can pretty much blind most opponents for 5 (maybe 6) levels. A Fighter can add anywhere from 5 to 10 damage to his attack, indefinitely. Now... neither of these is to be overlooked. However! Blinding an opponent, at the very least, effectively reduces its damage output by 50%. It also allows you to completely avoid an encounter if you want, or never take ANY damage if you are ranged and somewhat sneaky. It also reveals invisible creatures affected and renders hiding nearly impossible. This is a POWERFUL spell. Granted... these two effects (power attack and Glitterdust) are MOST potent when used together. But still... a fighter is going to have to land his power attacks and REALLY make them count to get the sort of mileage from it that a Wizard gets from Glitterdust.
OOC-well for that matter he could just ride on my sword, that's about 15' ;)
OOC - That's what SHE said!  But, otherwise, that works for me, if you guys are willing.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #52 on: May 05, 2010, 11:09:31 PM »
Alcohol is techically  considered poison.  Trouserfang drunken master?
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Thistledown Thurbertaut

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #53 on: May 05, 2010, 11:25:33 PM »
That made a Stonechild version seem especially appealing although when I looked I could find no rules covering any negative effects to alcohol...

You would think that a Drunken Master would get some kind of hangover penalties similar to the end of a barbarian's raging...

Anklebite

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #54 on: May 06, 2010, 08:25:30 AM »
Alcohol is techically  considered poison.  Trouserfang drunken master?
solo is currently playing one in the dungeon star PbP.
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