Author Topic: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!  (Read 6906 times)

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Thistledown Thurbertaut

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Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« on: May 02, 2010, 08:56:23 AM »
Here is my basic gist.  However I am not sure what the most optimal order to take things in would be.  Also I am open to suggestions to make this idea even better:

Goliath, Barbarian 1, Fighter 6, Monk 2, Drunken Master 10

Dungeoncrasher ACF for the Fighter, Lion Totem (Pounce!) ACF for the Barbarian.  If I have a campaign with LA Buyoff I will dip Cleric 1 for the domains of Celerity, and either Strength, Dwarf, or Retribution.

Feats:
Dodge (1st), Mobility (Fighter 1), Great Fortitude (3rd) Spring Attack (Fighter 4th), Power Attack (6th), Improved Bullrush (9th), Arrow Defelction (Monk 2), Knockback (12th), Improved Trip (15th), Shock Trooper (18th), Cleave (or combat reflexes?) (Flaw) Leap Attack (Flaw).

I listed the levels to be placeholders.  May or may not have access to flaws.  What is the most optimal order to select the feats in?

So far my Strength/Con bonus looks like: +4/+2 (Race), +4/+4 (Rage), +20/+20 (10 Drinks) for a total Strength/Con bonus of +28/+26, if Strength domain could get an extra +3 Str from enlarge person+granted power.

Side question: The Drunken Master can benefit from 1 drink per class level...is that limited by your Wisdom and Intellect scores which will be reduced as your power increases?

Last question: Given the above spread of feats, how would I use them tactically to my best advantage?  I am new to playing a melee/charging type of character so some of those nuances escape me...

Thanks in advance for anyone willing to help!

wotmaniac

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2010, 11:10:07 AM »
if you do get the LA buy-off, then make that cloistered cleric and change out knowledge domain for knowledge devotion.  add knowledge skill ranks as needed.
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TheEndIsNear

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2010, 11:54:09 AM »
Reply if you get LA buyoff Feral would be amazing and would give you pounce (and FH).

Solo

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2010, 01:47:19 PM »
Fist of the Forest lets you add Con to AC, which might be useful/hilarious.

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bearsarebrown

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2010, 02:15:06 PM »
Reply if you get LA buyoff Feral would be amazing and would give you pounce (and FH).
That's for racial HD only.

Drunken Master sucks. You can recreate the same concept fairly well with completely different classes.

Anklebite

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2010, 02:18:03 PM »
Reply if you get LA buyoff Feral would be amazing and would give you pounce (and FH).
That's for racial HD only.

Drunken Master sucks. You can recreate the same concept fairly well with completely different classes.
like 30ft reach with a ladder?
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bearsarebrown

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2010, 02:35:08 PM »
like 30ft reach with a ladder?
Everyone can use Improvised Weapons. They can just do it without penalty and it uses Unarmed Strike damage.

Solo

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2010, 03:43:34 PM »
Actually, I don't think you get to use Improved Weapons as reach weapons by default.

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Surreal

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2010, 04:08:18 PM »
Actually, I don't think you get to use Improved Weapons as reach weapons by default.
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Solo

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2010, 04:10:46 PM »
Ah, I see.

Only 10 ft reach through.

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dark_samuari

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2010, 04:53:51 PM »
Hmm... Let's see what we could do. Well first of all the recommendation of Fist of the Forest is a really good one as in addition to all the class benefits (and they are numerous great ones) you also pick up a code of conduct that screams Drunkard.

In regards to the mechanics of the build perhaps something can be changed around. What about Wolf (UA) & Lion (CC) Totem Barbarian 2/Cobra-Strike (UA) Monk 2/DungeonCrasher (DU) & Zhentarim (CV) Fighter 6/Drunken Master 4/Fist of the Forest 1/Drunken Master 5? 

This sets you up towards three impressive combat styles: tripping, bull rushing and demoralization.

Thistledown Thurbertaut

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2010, 06:39:41 PM »
Okay, I haven't gotten exactly the answers I was looking for, but I will reply to each item in turn.

For starters my thoughts went like so:

Barbarian 1 for rage, pounce and flavor. Fighter 6 for feats and maximal Dungeoncrashing damage. Monk 2 to meet the prereqs  for drunken master (flurry of blows and evasion) and drunken master 10 for maximal usage of alcohol (+20 to Str and Con!  Healing! Fire breath as a free action on top!  staggering non straight line bullrush, spinning stunning bullrush!).


Also, with regards to unarmed and unarmored, I had planned on this character actually wearing armor unless it's not optimal to. I also wasn;t going unarmed.  Instead he would use an adamantine Stein enchanted to make super strong alcohol...it would be large since he is Goliath and attached by a chain to his wrist so he can't be disarmed and can use it as a ball and chain for shaolin style hijinks.

As to your specific feedback:


I'm not sure how being a cloistered cleric applies at all.  Why would I want the knowledge domain?  I was going to take domains like Strength Dwarf, Celerity and Retribution. Cloistered seems like a non sequiter...


FotF frankly looks like an awesome class but I'm not sure it really fots the flavor what with growing claws and all, and also prevents armor.  Maybe Stoneblessed +Deepwarden, which would fit the "raised by Dwarves" story I was going for, although again my class limits are all maxed out.  I would either need to give up the last levels of Drunken Master, or lose my greater dungeoncrashing damage..

@ Bears:  Why does Drunken Master suck?  A +20 to Str and Con is phenomenal, and the flavor of how one goes about getting it is just awesome/hillarious.  It would just be a blast to roleplay.  How else could I duplicate that feature?  What would it take to improve the class?

Also my original question bears repeating since no one answered it and it's crucial.  For every +2 Str/Con I take a -2 to Int/Wis (again hillarious).  Now it says that the Dm can benefit from 1 drink per class level so 10 drinks at level 10.  But what if I start off with Int and Wis scores of say...12?  Does that limit me to a maximum of 4 or 6 drinks at which point my mental stats will be 2/0?  If they hit 0 do I pass out?  That would be a seriously limiting factor to consider since how many levels I could benefit from in the build would be limited by those two stats.  it would also make me MAD since for optimal build I want to start with my Str and Con as high as possible.

Probably wouldn;t want to go with Zhentarim again for flavor reasons. 

And is there an optimal order to pick my original feats in?  Is taking Spring attack along with the bullrushing/shcktrooping/dungeoncrashing redundant?  These are the questions I need answered.

Solo

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2010, 06:48:11 PM »
Quote
Why does Drunken Master suck?  A +20 to Str and Con is phenomenal
1. It only applies to either Str or Con.
2. It takes several rounds of drinking to get to that point.
3. It only lasts for a few rounds.

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Bozwevial

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2010, 06:54:07 PM »
Quote
Why does Drunken Master suck?  A +20 to Str and Con is phenomenal
1. It only applies to either Str or Con.
2. It takes several rounds of drinking to get to that point.
3. It only lasts for a few rounds.

4. Healing is a standard action, 3/day, and only works while under a drink.
5. You won't get breath of flame until 15th level at earliest, and by then fire resistance is common.

And like Solo said, the effects last class level+3 rounds. If you spend, say, 5 rounds doing nothing but drinking, then round 6 is when you actually get the full bonus. And by then, your first two drinks have lost 4 rounds of duration, your second two have lost three...you get the picture.

If you want a really good Drunken Master, there was a Tome version floating around somewhere...

Surreal

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2010, 07:09:02 PM »
There should be a skill trick for chugging drinks faster...
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Fluffles

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2010, 07:26:45 PM »
Drunken Master sucks. You can recreate the same concept fairly well with completely different classes.

Not the +2 Str/Con for drinking though.

Solo

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2010, 07:55:52 PM »
Drunken Master sucks. You can recreate the same concept fairly well with completely different classes.

Not the +2 Str/Con for drinking though.
Yes, even that. Because it takes a move action for a small boost with short duration.

Perhaps if it was 3 minutes + 1 minute per Drunken Master level.

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Fluffles

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2010, 08:06:07 PM »
Drunken Master sucks. You can recreate the same concept fairly well with completely different classes.

Not the +2 Str/Con for drinking though.
Yes, even that. Because it takes a move action for a small boost with short duration.

Perhaps if it was 3 minutes + 1 minute per Drunken Master level.

Hell, even 1 Minute per CON bonus (Min 1) would be better.

Thistledown Thurbertaut

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2010, 09:31:24 PM »
Quote
Why does Drunken Master suck?  A +20 to Str and Con is phenomenal
1. It only applies to either Str or Con.
2. It takes several rounds of drinking to get to that point.
3. It only lasts for a few rounds.

4. Healing is a standard action, 3/day, and only works while under a drink.
5. You won't get breath of flame until 15th level at earliest, and by then fire resistance is common.

And like Solo said, the effects last class level+3 rounds. If you spend, say, 5 rounds doing nothing but drinking, then round 6 is when you actually get the full bonus. And by then, your first two drinks have lost 4 rounds of duration, your second two have lost three...you get the picture.

If you want a really good Drunken Master, there was a Tome version floating around somewhere...

Okay this all makes alot more sense now. I missed the OR part.  Also...while it would seem that being inebriated should last longer, how many rounds does one really need to be buffed for?  The fights with Jackie Chan in Legends of Drunken Master were pretty short and brutal.  So in your example, after drinking for 5 rounds (and realisticly he would have been drinking anyways for a head start), he would have 8 rounds at full power and can always pause for a swig before going back to fighting...is that optimal? No, but it sure is funny as hell!

Let's keep playing with this to find the optimal.

I want as much Strength and Con as possible as well as stagger, bullrush and all of those awesome feats from the OP.  If I let go of being attached to 10 levels of Drunken Master that opens up a higher LA Race...say Stonechild, or Jarssef...seems like both of those would make amazing monks and the only thing I would really miss is the Goliath's Powerful build...

dark_samuari

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Re: Help me optimize this Burly Barfighter!
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2010, 09:43:02 PM »
In the case of such a concept you'll probably be better going with more class levels than a monster class.

So I'll pose the question towards you, why do you exactly want to play the Drunken Master? What brings you towards it? What do you want your character to be able to do and how do you envision them being able to do it?