Author Topic: Need help with a Cleric Build in a 3.5 Environment - few PrCs allowed  (Read 5220 times)

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MorgenTao

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Hi there  :)
I got another question. I will be playing this character in a mostly core classes / but a wide array of feats from many books (though no Dragon Magazine) as well as mostly only core spells campaign. The campaign will likely go into epic levels. Currently, we will be starting at lvl 6.
My build would be focused on buffing and spellcasting, with the opportunity to hit some via Knowledge Devotion + Power Attack. Healing wouldn't be that important, as we have a guy with a healing/turning optimized Pelor Cleric. Gods from the Core PHB, no evil gods allowed.
Divine Fooling Caster is a Feat every cleric in this campaign must take, due to Vecna being the only god revered in the environment, all other gods are forbidden. It makes you seem a Vecna Cleric, and you can cast your spells with a Vecna Symbol. So it is effectively a 1-feat cleric nerf - I think it doesn't hurt much though.
I took the one Fighter Level for the Weapon Proficiencies (and Armor Proficiencies), as well as for Power Attack.

In your opinion, is that build viable? What could I do better regarding Cloistered Cleric or not / Race Choice / God Choice (Devoted to a cause is no option) / Domain Choice / Alignment Choice and Feat Choice.

Albus Avalon, neutral Human Cloistered Cleric of Fharlaghn 1 / Fighter 1 / Cloistered Cleric X
str 16, dex 11, con 14, int 13, wis 18, cha 13
8 Skill Points per level (6 Cloistered Cleric, 1 Bonus, 1 Human), Distribution: Concentration, Spellcraft, Knowledge Religion, Knowledge The Planes, Knowledge Nature, Knowledge Dungeoneering, Knowledge Arcana, Diplomacy.
Fighter Level: 4 Skill Points (Swim), Power Attack


Feats:
1: Divine Fooling Caster, Extra Turning
2: Power Attack
3: Knowledge Devotion
6: Extend Spell
9: Quicken Spell
12: Persistent Spell
15: Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell
18: Extra Turning

Languages: Human, Elven
Domains: Luck, Travel, Knowledge

Thanks for your answers and inspiration   :thumb

Solo

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Re: Need help with a Cleric Build in a 3.5 Environment - few PrCs allowed
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2010, 10:36:58 AM »
Ditch fighter for more cleric.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Rebel7284

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Re: Need help with a Cleric Build in a 3.5 Environment - few PrCs allowed
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2010, 10:47:49 AM »
The fighter is totally not worth it.  Take a god with a planning domain for free extend spell and get DMM earlier.
Negative level on a chicken would make it a wight the next day.  Chicken the other wight meat. -borg286

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Need help with a Cleric Build in a 3.5 Environment - few PrCs allowed
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2010, 10:58:45 AM »
Drop the Knowledge Domain to pick up Knowledge Devotion. You'll lose your knowledge skills except arcane, religion and planes (and history... but that doesn't matter) as class skills, but can still stick a few cross-class skill points into the others.

And Vecna is the only god revered, but you can play a cleric of another god if you take a useless feat? WTF...  :twitch

I'm not sure what core deities (if any) have the Planning domain. Do you have to actually worship a deity? You don't in most settings (other than Forgotten Realms). You can worship an ideal and pick domains that match it.

Planning was printed in both Complete Warrior as well as the Spell Compendium, other than the Player's Guide to Faerun. One of those might list which (if any) Greyhawk deities provide it.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 11:00:39 AM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Littha

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Re: Need help with a Cleric Build in a 3.5 Environment - few PrCs allowed
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2010, 11:14:42 AM »
Drop the Knowledge Domain to pick up Knowledge Devotion. You'll lose your knowledge skills except arcane, religion and planes (and history... but that doesn't matter) as class skills, but can still stick a few cross-class skill points into the others.

And Vecna is the only god revered, but you can play a cleric of another god if you take a useless feat? WTF...  :twitch

I'm not sure what core deities (if any) have the Planning domain. Do you have to actually worship a deity? You don't in most settings (other than Forgotten Realms). You can worship an ideal and pick domains that match it.

Planning was printed in both Complete Warrior as well as the Spell Compendium, other than the Player's Guide to Faerun. One of those might list which (if any) Greyhawk deities provide it.

Even in Faerun you can worship that elder evil that lets you choose domains...

MorgenTao

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Re: Need help with a Cleric Build in a 3.5 Environment - few PrCs allowed
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2010, 11:24:10 AM »
Thanks for your answers :)
I'll see to everything, I guess I'll better decide to go "Full Buffer/Caster", swapping Knowledge still seems worth it as well.

@ Phaedrus: Vecna is the official god, I have to take that otherwise useless feat because we're part of a resistance group (and so cannot revere the evil Vecna, because we cannot revere evil gods) :/ - Picking an ideal is also banned.
That feat isn't necessary, but I'll be hunted by the guards if anyone sees me casting a spell with a symbol other than Vecna's in public. And that feat enables me to use the "fooling symbol of Vecna" which is a Holy Symbol for my god, except it looks like a Vecna's holy symbol.

Edit: Are there ways to cast spells as a cleric without a holy symbol?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 11:34:09 AM by MorgenTao »

Tonymitsu

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Re: Need help with a Cleric Build in a 3.5 Environment - few PrCs allowed
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2010, 11:38:30 AM »
Aren't there feats or skill tricks or something else somewhere that allows you to cast spells without anyone noticing that the spell is coming from you?

Also if you play a DMM Persist cleric couldn't you just cast all your buffs at the beginning of the day when no one else is around?


....And if you are a cleric casting spells that's fighting other clerics casting spells wouldn't any NPC with half a working brain kind of think, "hey he doesn't seem all that committed to Vecna's ideals?"

 ???

Littha

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Re: Need help with a Cleric Build in a 3.5 Environment - few PrCs allowed
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2010, 11:39:38 AM »
ranks in slight of hand should work or i believe there is a skill trick to do so.

MorgenTao

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Re: Need help with a Cleric Build in a 3.5 Environment - few PrCs allowed
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2010, 11:56:49 AM »
Thanks Littha and Tonymitsu.. i'll try to find these feats and use them instead :D

You're right, Tonymitsu. But the strange thing is, we actually have to work for the evil guys to subvert the church of Vecna. I guess I'll have to get Undetectable Alignment from.. anywhere.. as well.

Also, can you trade the Knowledge Domain for Knowledge Devotion right off the bat? It needs 5 Knowledge (any) as a prerequisite, so I couldn't do that if I was starting at 1st Level Cleric, or could I?

Littha

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Re: Need help with a Cleric Build in a 3.5 Environment - few PrCs allowed
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2010, 12:08:39 PM »
that is if you want to take it as a feat i believe, swapping shouldn't be a problem.

McPoyo

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Re: Need help with a Cleric Build in a 3.5 Environment - few PrCs allowed
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2010, 12:11:31 PM »
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

MorgenTao

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Re: Need help with a Cleric Build in a 3.5 Environment - few PrCs allowed
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2010, 12:35:00 PM »
Wow, thanks again Littha and McPoyo.  :thumb
I'll probably take Boccob as my god then. Also fits a Cloistered Cleric quite well.., and I could also get the handy Magic Domain as well, then. If the DM accepts Contemplative 1. Wand of Knock / ... here I come.
I highly doubt I will get the DM to accept Mask of Gentility, but I'll really try.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 12:37:53 PM by MorgenTao »

McPoyo

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Re: Need help with a Cleric Build in a 3.5 Environment - few PrCs allowed
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2010, 12:39:06 PM »
Wow, thanks again Littha and McPoyo.  :thumb
I'll probably take Boccob as my god then. Also fits a Cloistered Cleric quite well.., and I could also get the handy Magic Domain as well, then. If the DM accepts Contemplative 1. Wand of Knock / ... here I come.
I highly doubt I will get the DM to accept Mask of Gentility, but I'll really try.
It's not an evil feat at all, and highly thematic. Read the flavor text on it, I think it would work great in the campaign he's aiming for.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

MorgenTao

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Re: Need help with a Cleric Build in a 3.5 Environment - few PrCs allowed
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2010, 12:51:50 PM »
I guess so, but I don't think we have anyone in the group who possesses anything close to a printed or online version of Exemplars of Evil. I'll look it up, though. Thanks again  :)

Saxony

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Re: Need help with a Cleric Build in a 3.5 Environment - few PrCs allowed
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2010, 12:52:26 PM »
Edit:

Yay, rules clarification.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 02:53:01 PM by Saxony »
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MorgenTao

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Re: Need help with a Cleric Build in a 3.5 Environment - few PrCs allowed
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2010, 01:01:20 PM »
Thanks, Saxony  :)

I think you're right. But it seems the DM is of a different opinion. Also, it does say in the description of the Holy Symbol at the Equipment part, that a holy symbol functions as a focus for a Cleric's spells. Whatever that means. I guess, my DM imagines this as holding it up, or present it somehow. And I sure won't cause trouble because of a feat. But I think I'll try to ask him nicely and see what happens.

Rebel7284

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Re: Need help with a Cleric Build in a 3.5 Environment - few PrCs allowed
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2010, 01:03:55 PM »
Where does it say clerics' holy symbols must be presented when casting spells or ever?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 01:05:59 PM by Rebel7284 »
Negative level on a chicken would make it a wight the next day.  Chicken the other wight meat. -borg286

MorgenTao

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Re: Need help with a Cleric Build in a 3.5 Environment - few PrCs allowed
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2010, 01:09:08 PM »
Thank you for this clarification, Rebel7284. Wow, I'm learning quite much today  :clap
3.5 E has quite a set of rules though  :D I sometimes have blackouts on even the easiest of them.

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Need help with a Cleric Build in a 3.5 Environment - few PrCs allowed
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2010, 01:12:22 PM »
Look at the components section of each spell. If it is marked with a DF then you need it to cast that spell, if not you don't.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
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MorgenTao

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Re: Need help with a Cleric Build in a 3.5 Environment - few PrCs allowed
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2010, 01:19:06 PM »
I see.. it hadn't ever been an issue for me in all these years. About half the spells for Clerics seem DF spells. Thanks, archangel.arcanis. So it's actually a real nuisance to have a rogue steal a cleric's holy symbol, and then confront said cleric :)