Author Topic: Linked Power: Why is it so spiffy?  (Read 26311 times)

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Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Linked Power: Why is it so spiffy?
« Reply #60 on: April 22, 2010, 09:28:21 AM »
err psicrystals don't gain any HD :S
Text for psicrystal HD does not support your opinion.

I double checked XPH but couldn't find any text on psicrystal HD. That's weird. Mind quoting?
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Brainpiercing

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Re: Linked Power: Why is it so spiffy?
« Reply #61 on: April 22, 2010, 09:33:35 AM »
Quote from: SRD
Psicrystal Basics: Use the statistics for a psicrystal, but make the following changes.

Quote from: SRD
« Last Edit: April 22, 2010, 09:35:43 AM by Brainpiercing »

Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Linked Power: Why is it so spiffy?
« Reply #62 on: April 22, 2010, 09:46:28 AM »
Aha! Then the psionic class dip became a lot better :P
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Linked Power: Why is it so spiffy?
« Reply #63 on: April 22, 2010, 05:44:01 PM »
Let's assume I have my psicrystal take Practiced Manifester and Psicrystal Affinity.
The text for Hidden Talent says that it's not an actual manifester level, and only works for manifesting that one power (unless you actually do have actual manifester levels).

Thus, your psicrystal cannot take feats that require a manifester level to take. It can take psionic feats, but not all of them.

How does thiw work for focuses?
It doesn't. Psicrystals can't take Psicrystal Affinity, but they CAN take Leadership to get a psion/psychic warrior/ardent/wilder thrall cohort with Psicrystal Affinity, however, but it's a totally different character, and you can't share psionic foci.

Also, could I use Hidden Talent as a Kineticist to learn astral construct?
Yes you could. It adds it to your powers known list as if you'd taken Expanded Knowledge, except it's only available at 1st level, only works for a 1st level power, doesn't require a prior manifester level, and gives you 2 pp. Kineticists even get a bonus for having astral construct as a power known, as the energy touch ability on Menu B goes from 1d4 energy damage to 1d6 (although the text is wonky, since it was upgraded badly [if at all] from 3.0). It's not much, but it's something.
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LargePrime

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Re: Linked Power: Why is it so spiffy?
« Reply #64 on: April 22, 2010, 06:01:36 PM »
err psicrystals don't gain any HD :S
Text for psicrystal HD does not support your opinion.

I double checked XPH but couldn't find any text on psicrystal HD. That's weird. Mind quoting?

Phoenix00

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Re: Linked Power: Why is it so spiffy?
« Reply #65 on: April 22, 2010, 07:25:18 PM »
So I am thinking a very good 1st level dip for an erudite would be the soulknife.  Assuming a human with two flaws, he would gains 1 instance of hidden talent from soulknife, is allowed to taken hidden talent multiple times (at any level), and can now use his 4 other feats gained at 1st level to learn a total of 5 psionic powers that use his erudite manifester level, and don't count against his unique powers known.

For example these powers are good from level 1 to 20.
Astral Construct
Charm Psionic
Dimension Hop
Energy Ray
Minor Creation Psionic
Mindlink (to get into Thrallherd which is that awesome)
Precongition Offensive
Precongition Defensive
Synchronicity
Vigor

Sure he is 1 level behind, but he gains another 5 powers known.

Same logic goes with wilder, psychic warrior, and ardent.

Oh what also would be awesome would be a soulknife/bloodline 3/ardent 2/Y 13 with Y being psionic prcs that advance manifesting...
« Last Edit: April 22, 2010, 07:27:42 PM by Phoenix00 »

Endarire

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Re: Linked Power: Why is it so spiffy?
« Reply #66 on: April 22, 2010, 07:53:18 PM »
Hidden Talent rocketh!  Can my Psicrystal benefit from Practiced Manifester?
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Negative Zero

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Re: Linked Power: Why is it so spiffy?
« Reply #67 on: April 22, 2010, 08:47:32 PM »
So I am thinking a very good 1st level dip for an erudite would be the soulknife.  Assuming a human with two flaws, he would gains 1 instance of hidden talent from soulknife, is allowed to taken hidden talent multiple times (at any level), and can now use his 4 other feats gained at 1st level to learn a total of 5 psionic powers that use his erudite manifester level, and don't count against his unique powers known.

For example these powers are good from level 1 to 20.
Astral Construct
Charm Psionic
Dimension Hop
Energy Ray
Minor Creation Psionic
Mindlink (to get into Thrallherd which is that awesome)
Precongition Offensive
Precongition Defensive
Synchronicity
Vigor

Sure he is 1 level behind, but he gains another 5 powers known.

Same logic goes with wilder, psychic warrior, and ardent.

Oh what also would be awesome would be a soulknife/bloodline 3/ardent 2/Y 13 with Y being psionic prcs that advance manifesting...

I don't think you can take Hidden Talent more than once.

Phoenix00

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Re: Linked Power: Why is it so spiffy?
« Reply #68 on: April 22, 2010, 09:00:39 PM »
I don't think you can take Hidden Talent more than once.
Normally yes, but 1 level of soulknife changes that
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a

Quote
Hidden Talent

Your psionic talent is strong enough to manifest a single power.
Level: 1st
Replaces: Wild Talent class ability

Benefit: You gain the Hidden Talent feat instead of the Wild Talent feat at 1st level (see Expanded Psionic Handbook, page 67). You gain 2 psionic power points, can now learn any psionic feat for which you meet the prerequisites, can expend your psionic focus, and can gain a single 1st-level power from any list.

Special: Normally the Hidden Talent feat can be taken only once at 1st level, but a soulknife with this class ability can take this feat multiple times, each time gaining an additional 2 psionic power points and another 1st-level power.

The most common powers chosen with this class ability are force screen and inertial armor since they fit the theme of a soulknife, but many choose other powers.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Linked Power: Why is it so spiffy?
« Reply #69 on: April 22, 2010, 10:39:59 PM »
So I am thinking a very good 1st level dip for an erudite would be the soulknife.  Assuming a human with two flaws, he would gains 1 instance of hidden talent from soulknife, is allowed to taken hidden talent multiple times (at any level), and can now use his 4 other feats gained at 1st level to learn a total of 5 psionic powers that use his erudite manifester level, and don't count against his unique powers known.
I assume you mean unique powers per day?

For example these powers are good from level 1 to 20.
Astral Construct
Charm Psionic
Dimension Hop
Energy Ray
Minor Creation Psionic
Mindlink (to get into Thrallherd which is that awesome)
Precongition Offensive
Precongition Defensive
Synchronicity
Vigor
Those are, indeed, good powers, but you can spend some XP to get them instead of burning a level in soulknife.

Sure he is 1 level behind, but he gains another 5 powers known.
Extra powers known, at the expense of feats and a class level, when XP is a renewable resource (especially since XP acquisition is a river). Not really a great idea.

Also, what in the text given makes you think that the powers gained through Hidden Talent don't count against your Unique Powers Per Day? After all, it's essentially the same as Expanded Knowledge (but 1st level powers only, and +2 pp), and EK doesn't let you ignore your UPPD allotment...
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
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Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
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skydragonknight

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Re: Linked Power: Why is it so spiffy?
« Reply #70 on: April 23, 2010, 12:26:03 AM »
Building a Constructor and using Linked Power for Astral Construct off of Deflection field. Not wasting a full-round action and risking losing concentration is awesome. Plus, +4 Defection to AC for a round.
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Re: Linked Power: Why is it so spiffy?
« Reply #71 on: April 23, 2010, 01:01:12 AM »
I can see a Hidden Talent Soulblade tearing a big hole in the middle of an e6 campaign...
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Sounds fine to me.
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Endarire

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Re: Linked Power: Why is it so spiffy?
« Reply #72 on: April 23, 2010, 03:01:53 AM »
I answered my own question; a typical psicrystal can't use Hidden Talent + Practiced Manifester.  Without manifester levels, Hidden Talent doesn't stack with Practiced Manifester.  With psionic class levels, they stack.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Phoenix00

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Re: Linked Power: Why is it so spiffy?
« Reply #73 on: April 23, 2010, 03:44:48 PM »
I assume you mean unique powers per day?

Those are, indeed, good powers, but you can spend some XP to get them instead of burning a level in soulknife.

Extra powers known, at the expense of feats and a class level, when XP is a renewable resource (especially since XP acquisition is a river). Not really a great idea.

Also, what in the text given makes you think that the powers gained through Hidden Talent don't count against your Unique Powers Per Day? After all, it's essentially the same as Expanded Knowledge (but 1st level powers only, and +2 pp), and EK doesn't let you ignore your UPPD allotment...
Maybe I am wrong with the rules (not going to go through the rules with a fine tooth comb right now, for I am sick and I don't want to think) but my rational is this.  Hidden Talent powers are like powers from another psionic class, they use your highest manifester level no matter your source.  They aren't added to your powers known for that class.

And while adding powers known with Psychic Chirurgery is awesome, it is expensive with how much XP you need, and you need 9th level powers (or an item of 9th level).  Thus you are spending 1000 xp for each 1st level power learned at level 17 or your are buying a power stone costing (9*17*25=3825+5gp*1000xp=8825gp for a 1st level power or 44125 for 5 1st level powers.)

In the long run this is a better cost, but in the short term it may not be.

awaken DM golem

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Re: Linked Power: Why is it so spiffy?
« Reply #74 on: April 23, 2010, 05:52:53 PM »
Psicrystal can get a Psicrystal at level 21 via class feature of it's owner.
Big Guy Is With Me can get it sometime earlier.
The two things it needs are: Psionic Sub-type and a legitimate powerpoint source.
So ... Wild Talent but not Hidden Talent , and a [Host] feat or Polymorph trickery.

Soulknife 1 / Wilder X was a thread shortly after the Mind's Eye update. Good Stuff early.
With the PHB2 Rebuilding rules ... (yeah yeah) ... one could ditch that 1 level rather easily,
after an Erudite get to Psychic Reformation. It has the power, and it doesn't need the 1 level anymore.
Of course, it's rebuilding so your mileage may [shaddup].

Endarire

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Re: Linked Power: Why is it so spiffy?
« Reply #75 on: April 23, 2010, 09:03:30 PM »
This arena character's strategy depends on his opposition (its likely HP), whether he wins initiative, and number of buff rounds.  Those determine whether he emphasizes astral construct while invisibly levitating or goes more direct with an energy missile barrage.

My main concern is synchronicity.  Here's how I plan to explain it to my DM:

Normally, synchronicity allows me to ready an action without saying I'm readying an action.  Since it's a standard action to activate, it's of minor use.

When I manifest synchronicity as a swift, immediate, or 'free' action via Linked Power, I ready an extra standard action that activates before the start of my next turn.  This way, I get more actions.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Daedalus

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Re: Linked Power: Why is it so spiffy?
« Reply #76 on: May 19, 2010, 06:32:20 AM »
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/23144993/Psion_in_an_Cold_Hard_Null_World?post_id=410128229#410128229

Oh and psicrystals get feats, so at level 12 (or 10 with pathfinder) your psicrystal can use White Raven's Tacitcs (though you need to do a previous martial study for pre-requisites).

Where does it state this?

I find it a bit of a stretch going from HD=Master level for purposes of spell effects to HD =Master level allows feat gain, this would also mean that familiars would be able to gain feats since its the same wording...

Quote please :)

Phaenix

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Re: Linked Power: Why is it so spiffy?
« Reply #77 on: May 19, 2010, 10:14:18 AM »
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/23144993/Psion_in_an_Cold_Hard_Null_World?post_id=410128229#410128229

Oh and psicrystals get feats, so at level 12 (or 10 with pathfinder) your psicrystal can use White Raven's Tacitcs (though you need to do a previous martial study for pre-requisites).

Where does it state this?

I find it a bit of a stretch going from HD=Master level for purposes of spell effects to HD =Master level allows feat gain, this would also mean that familiars would be able to gain feats since its the same wording...

Quote please :)

Quote from: Psicrystal Entry in the SRD
A characteristics depend on its master.

Daedalus

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Re: Linked Power: Why is it so spiffy?
« Reply #78 on: May 19, 2010, 10:28:36 AM »
Err, that doesn't mean they gain feats simply by having HD = Master HD.

liken to familiars: (quoted from SRD)
Quote

They don't get any feats...

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Re: Linked Power: Why is it so spiffy?
« Reply #79 on: May 19, 2010, 10:31:47 AM »
Err, that doesn't mean they gain feats simply by having HD = Master HD.

liken to familiars: (quoted from SRD)
Quote
Familiar Basics

Use the basic statistics for a creature of the familiar’s kind, but make the following changes:
Hit Dice

For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master’s character level or the familiar’s normal HD total, whichever is higher

They don't get any feats...
Want to be really anal? That's because the familiar's are specifically only 'For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice'. The Psicrystal just has HD=Master!HD, period.
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