Author Topic: I cast fist  (Read 12664 times)

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Emo_Duck

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I cast fist
« on: February 28, 2011, 12:54:56 AM »
[spoiler]http://i.imgur.com/2rAQj.jpg[/spoiler]

So I wanted to make a muscle wizard using the infamous Lost Tradition feat from Bastards & Bloodlines. I'll say to start with that I have not watched Full Metal Alchemist, where this Armstrong character is apparently a muscle wizard.

What I would like from the build is a mostly punching character that uses his wizardry to punch more and punch better, preferably unarmoured and being all manly - Fist of the Forest would help with punching and being unarmoured. Sundering things with punches would be sweet too. The progression I've come up with so far has little in the way of blasting, which, going by the image in the spoiler tag, would be nice but not crucial.

So far, I'm thinking something like a human Bear Totem Barbarian 4/Fist of the Forest 1/Wizard 1/Abjurant Champion 5/???. Using the Martial Wizard ACF, Scribe Scroll is replaced by a fighter bonus feat.
Level 1: Improved Unarmed Strike (human bonus feat), Toughness (bear totem bonus feat), Lost Tradition: Strength-wizardry
Level 2: Improved Grapple (bear totem bonus feat)
Level 3: Great Fortitude (bear totem bonus feat), Power Attack
Level 6: Combat Casting, Improved Sunder (wizard-fightery bonus feat)

I was very keen on using abjuration spells for defense and deflecting attacks with a manly chest, but imagine my surprise upon finding precious few armour-granting abjuration spells. Most Abjurant Champion builds I've browsed this evening focus on conjuration/transmutation instead, making this whole thing rather lackluster due to a lack of caster levels. It seems I must devote fewer resources to Fist and more to Wizardry. What would you suggest?

Catty Nebulart

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Re: I cast fist
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2011, 01:30:29 AM »
You might be interested in the homebrew skydragonknight posted; http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5588.0

it's a str based caster, and it seems like it would do what's in that pic.
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Phoenix00

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Re: I cast fist
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2011, 02:20:07 AM »
You are forgiven for you are uninitiated but one does not watch Fullmetal Alchemist, one reads Fullmetal Alchemist.

Flay Crimsonwind

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Re: I cast fist
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2011, 02:29:23 AM »
You are forgiven for you are uninitiated but one does not watch Fullmetal Alchemist, one reads Fullmetal Alchemist.
:lmao I liked the original as well. Different, somewhat odd storyline though.

What about arcane fist? The divine version? They are MEANT to be spell-punching prcs, though yes, they're not great. Still, with a bit of Unarmed swordsage, Superior unarmed strike, Cleric, and then RKV, you'll be punching like a fool and spell-slinging like a fiend.

Alternatively, Sorcerer/paladin/Arcane fist, or as I'd prefer it, Sorc/Pally/Jade phoenix mage.

Trust me, Bo9S makes it muuuuuch more viable.

X-Codes

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Re: I cast fist
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2011, 02:36:09 AM »
If you add maneuver advancement to an Arcane Fist, similar to the Swordsage advancement...

Gods_Trick

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Re: I cast fist
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2011, 02:37:21 AM »

Are you using Barbarian for the feats? I'd suggest Fighter or Martial Monk if you really want those feats, because you can't cast when you are using Rage. Or just use Heroism and Polymorph, which would save you those precious levels.

Rejakor

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Re: I cast fist
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2011, 03:28:27 AM »

rasmuswagner

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Re: I cast fist
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2011, 04:00:53 AM »
IIRC, you could go Illumian and have bonus spells keyed to Str instead of Int.

telehax

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Re: I cast fist
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2011, 04:05:22 AM »
Fist of Stone is a must at low levels, and probably still incredibly useful at higher ones.

Andion Isurand

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Re: I cast fist
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2011, 05:10:13 AM »
You could easily use the Bite of the Werebear spell in Spell Compendium to reflect your bear totem barbarianism.

Draconic Polymorph from the Draconomicon stacks with it nicely.

There is also the Rage Casting feat from Dragon Magazine 310 page 30, however it applies to items and spells with a swift/immediate action casting time.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 05:23:50 AM by Andion Isurand »

Emo_Duck

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Re: I cast fist
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2011, 06:16:02 AM »
I can't seem to find an 'Arcane Fist' PrC. Is it the Enlightened Fist?

My thought with Barbarian was that I'd have some long-lasting buffs going, then swift action myself a couple of shorter-duration ones during the initial round(s) of a fight. Then I'd rage for more punching and more Fist of the Forest-derived AC. But, again, this was based on the assumption that I could get by pretty much only with abjuration spells (this Rage Casting feat would have been golden with the Abjurant Champion's swift action casting).

I am hoping to avoid polymorphing into bears and dragons and stuff. It detracts from manly fists.

Bard

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Re: I cast fist
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2011, 07:32:20 AM »
Don't forget Monastic Training feat anyway.
I'd avoid polymorphing, except maybe back in some human form since it sorta defeats the purpose of making a punch-hitting muscle halfnaked wizard :P

does it have to be a wizard or just a caster?
I think PSYWAR/wu-jen/psion might fit the bill a bit better.
Let me elaborate...
If you have access to the Secret of Sarlona book for Eberron, or if you can convince your DM to give a feat from there, PSYWAR with monastic trainging and Tashalotora feats stacks perfectly with monk (giving AC, increased unarmed damage and even flurry progression! plus it stacks with armor bonuses given by the psywar) and gives you a lot of awesome combat buffs.
Psion still works with Tashalotora, casts more and has more PP, but you lose a lot of combat buffs and BAB.
Wu-Jen is a bit worse than those two, but (imho) has a nice flavor for a punching caster and some nice buff spells like Giant Size and Body outside body that are exclusive to wujen. You do lose Bite of the WereXYZ line of buffs tho...

If it were for me the best pick would be a Monk 2/Psywar 18 or something along those lines, it simple, it's fun and it works :D
[Spoiler]
His old DM was on crack. He could take levels in freaking Dread Necromancer if he wanted to and no rule in the universe would keep him from doing so.
Rule 0?
Which, I guess, would be 'no rule,' since none = 0.
What's funny is he always brings up Rule 0. I actually had to ask him what that was, and without blinking an eye he gave me the most detailed explanation I'd ever heard for a rule. It was like he was in a trance when he spoke. Looking it up, it just said "The unspoken DM gets final say/veto anything he wants rule."
You're such a kind man, for taking in abused unfortunates and rehabilitating them.
[/spoiler]

telehax

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Re: I cast fist
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2011, 09:30:23 AM »
Naughty trick: Double PAO into the form with the highest str, repeat for dex, con, and NA, and back. Then cast (persist) strength of the true form.

Bard

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Re: I cast fist
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2011, 11:31:37 AM »
Naughty trick: Double PAO into the form with the highest str, repeat for dex, con, and NA, and back. Then cast (persist) strength of the true form.
I'm curious about this, care to elaborate how this works and where it's from? :D
[Spoiler]
His old DM was on crack. He could take levels in freaking Dread Necromancer if he wanted to and no rule in the universe would keep him from doing so.
Rule 0?
Which, I guess, would be 'no rule,' since none = 0.
What's funny is he always brings up Rule 0. I actually had to ask him what that was, and without blinking an eye he gave me the most detailed explanation I'd ever heard for a rule. It was like he was in a trance when he spoke. Looking it up, it just said "The unspoken DM gets final say/veto anything he wants rule."
You're such a kind man, for taking in abused unfortunates and rehabilitating them.
[/spoiler]

Phoenix00

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Re: I cast fist
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2011, 12:00:55 PM »
Naughty trick: Double PAO into the form with the highest str, repeat for dex, con, and NA, and back. Then cast (persist) strength of the true form.
I'm curious about this, care to elaborate how this works and where it's from? :D
Strength of the true form is in Dragon of Eberron.  It is 1st level intermediate spell that lasts for 1 round only.  It was designed by dragons so they can use their raw strength even in their alternate humanoid forms.  It has since been copied via sorcerers with polymorph.

Pretty much for that 1 round you get to mix and match the best physical stats of your original form and your alternate magically induced form.  Persistent spell makes 1 round last all day.