Author Topic: Ask a Simple Question: Ragnarok Edition  (Read 100994 times)

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Vinom

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Re: Ask a Simple Question: Ragnarok Edition
« Reply #240 on: April 23, 2010, 09:28:07 AM »
Q 57: I need a class that offers a dice of sneak attack as a one level dip, assuming I've already selected Rogue, Oriental Adventures Ninja, Spell Thief and the sneak attack varient fighter. Is there a base class or a PrC I could qualify for that I've over looked?
A player once asked me if there was any way to make a Tarrasque more evil... 3 sessions later he was stoned with D20s as the PC led an exidus out of the path of a Dire Tarrasque of Legendary Wonder.

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Re: Ask a Simple Question: Ragnarok Edition
« Reply #241 on: April 23, 2010, 09:32:08 AM »
Q 57: I need a class that offers a dice of sneak attack as a one level dip, assuming I've already selected Rogue, Oriental Adventures Ninja, Spell Thief and the sneak attack varient fighter. Is there a base class or a PrC I could qualify for that I've over looked?
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/assassin.htm

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Ask a Simple Question: Ragnarok Edition
« Reply #242 on: April 23, 2010, 10:14:34 AM »
Alternatively, Slayer of Domiel, Cancer Mage, Ronin (CW), Invisible Blade (CW), Justicar(CW), Nightsong Enforcer (CA), Unseen seer,Justiciar of Taiia,Dread Commando, Scorpion Wraith (xendrik secrets), Guild Thief (FRCS), Fist of Dal Quor (Sarlona), Magelord (LEoF), Shadow Thief of Amn(PGtF), Peerless Archer (silver marches), Dread Fang of Lloth(DotU)
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Re: Ask a Simple Question: Ragnarok Edition
« Reply #243 on: April 23, 2010, 10:28:28 AM »
A57
See also the Justicar of <something> in Deities and Demigods.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
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Re: Ask a Simple Question: Ragnarok Edition
« Reply #244 on: April 23, 2010, 12:57:18 PM »
A 57: Also from my lists of stuff... [spoiler]Sneak Attack


PHB
Rogue 1, 3, 5, 7.../20


DMG
Arcane Trickster: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10/10 (full caster advancement)
Assassin: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9/10 (Death Attack at level 1, gain minor arcane casting)
Blackguard: 4, 7, 10/10 (gain divine casting at level 1, full BAB)


Psionic
Pionic Rogue: 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, 19/20
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b


Book of Exalted Deeds
Slayer of Domiel: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9/10 (Death Touch at level 1, gain divine casting at level 1)
Sacred Strike, feat, against evil creatures roll d8 for damage instead of d6


Book of Vile Darkness
Cancer Mage: 1, 5, 9/10
Disciple of Baalzebub: 2, 5, 8/10



Complete Warrior (all full BAB)
Dark Hunter: 3/5 (Death Attack at level 5)
Darkwood Stalker: 3, 6, 9/10 (Death Attack at level 10)
Invisible Blade: 1, 3, 5/5 ("dagger" only, faint as free action 1/round)
Justiciar: 1, 4, 7, 10/10 (nonlethal strike)
Ronin: 1, 4, 7, 10/10


Complete Divine
Black Flame Zealot: 3, 6, 9/10 (Death Attack at 1, advances divine half)
Temple Raider of Olidammara: 2, 5, 8/10 (gain divine spells at level 1)


Complete Arcane



Complete Adventurer
Ninja: 1, 3, 5, 7.../20 (Sudden Strike)
Spellthief: 1, 5, 9, 13, 17/20 (gains arcane casting at level 4)
Daggerspell Mage: 3, 6, 9/10 (advances arcane 9/10)
Daggerspell Shaper: 3, 6, 9/10 (advances divine 9/10)
Dread Pirate (dishonourable): 3, 7/10 (full BAB)
Ghost-Faced Killer: 2, 5, 8/10 (Sudden Strike, full BAB)
Nightsong Enforcer: 1, 4, 7, 10/10 (full BAB)
Nightsong Infiltrator: 4, 8/10 (Teamwork Sneak Attack)
Shadowbane Inquisitor: 4, 7, 10/10 (full BAB)
Shadowbane Stalker: 3, 6, 9/10 (advances divine 8/10)
Shadowmind: 2, 5, 8/10 (advances manifesting class 7/10)
Spymaster: 3, 6/7
Streetfighter: 3/5


Complete Psionic
Lurk: 2, 7, 12, 17/20 (psionic sneak attack, only functions while psionically focused)
Ebon Saint: 3/5 (sneak attack or psionic sneak attack)


Complete Mage
Unseen Seer 1, 4, 7, 10/10, ecl 6 (either sneak attack, sudden strike, or skirmish; full arcane advancement)



Complete Scoundrel
Avenging Executioner: 1, 3, 5/5 (sudden strike, gain abilities to make opponent flatfooted)
Cloaked Dancer: 2, 4/5 (suprise strike, 3/5 arcane advancement)
Mountebank 2, 5, 8/10, ecl 7, Complete Scoundrel
Psibond 3, 6, 9/10, ecl 8, Complete Scoundrel
Master of Masks 1, 4, 7, 10/10, ecl 6, only while wearing the Assassin Mask
spellwarp sniper 2, 4/5, ecl 8, (sudden raystrike, see text)


Complete Champion
Mythic Examplar (Dardallion): 3, 5, 7, 9/10 (early entry ecl 5, advances casting 4/10)


Deities and Demigods
Justiciar of Taiia: 1, 4, 7, 10/10, ecl 6 (gain minor divine spellcasting at level 1)


Draconomicon
Dragonstalker: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10/10 (gains 2d6 sneak attack each time, only effective against dragons, full BAB)


Dragon Magic:
Hand of the Winged Masters: 2, 5, 8/10, ecl ?? (sneak attack or sudden strike or skirmish)
Dragon Descendant 3 (subtle ancestor), ecl 8: gain 2d6, see text (also stacks for certain monk abilities)


Fiendish Codex II - Tyrants of the Nine Hells:
Hellbreaker 3, 6, 9/10 (can also steal spell-like or supernatural abilities)


Cityscape
Ebonmar Infiltrator: 2, 5, 8/10, ecl 7 (gain minor Int based arcane casting)


Dungeonscape


Frostburn


Heroes of Battle
Dread Commando: 1, 3, 5/5 (Sudden Strike, full BAB)


Libris Mortis


Lords of Madness


Magic of Incarnum
Umbral Disciple: 2, 5, 8/10


Miniatures Handbook
Skullclan Hunter: 3, 6, 9/10 (can "sneak attack" undead at level 2, read "Divine Strike" wording carefully, not actually sneak attack... I think)
Tactical Soldier: read "Flanker" ability


Planar Handbook
Fatemaker: 3, 6, 9/10 (gains minor Cha based arcane casting)


Races of Destiny
Chameleon: see text
Menacing Brute: 3/5 (full BAB)
Scar Enforcer: 3,6,9/10 (advance half caster)


Races of the Dragon
Dragon Devotee 2, 4/5, ecl 7, (either sneak attack, sudden strike, or skirmish; advances sorcerer casting 2/5)


Races of Stone
Blade Bravo: 4, 8/10 (melee only, full BAB)
Stonedeath Assassin: 2, 4/5 (Stonedeath Strike at level 5)


Races of the Wild
Whisperknife: 2, 5, 8/10 (full BAB)


Sandstorm
Scorpion Heritor: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10/10
race: Marrulurk, small Monstrous Humanoid, 3 HD, +1 LA (ECL 4), 2d6 sneak attack


Stormwrack
Scarlet Corsair 2, 6, 10/10 (full BAB, faint as free action once per 2d4 or 1d4 rounds)


Tome of Battle:
Assassin's Stance, Shadow Hand Stance - gain 2d6 sneak attack


Tome of Magic:
Andromalius vestige - see text
Malphas vestige - see text (sudden strike)
Shadowblade 2, 4, 6, 8, 10/10 (sudden strike, at level 3 gain ability to deny opponent their dex bonus)


Expedition to Castle Ravenloft
Rogue 3: "Penetrating Strike" - exchange trapsense for the ability to do half you sneak attack damage against undead


Eberron Campaign Setting


Eberron: Five Nations
Dark Lantern: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10/10


Magic of Eberron
Vigilant Sentinal of Aerenal: 2, 4/5


Eberron: Secrets of Xen'drik
Scorpion Wraith: 1, 3, 5/5 (sudden strike, full BAB)


Eberron: Secrets of Sarlona
Fist of Dal Quor: 1, 3, 5/5 (sudden strike, also gain stunning attacks)


Eberron: Faiths of Eberron
Thief of Life: 2, 6, 10/10



Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (3.0)
The Divine Seeker: 2, 4/5
Guild Thief: 1, 3, 5/5


FR: Champions of Ruin
Justice of Weald and Woe: 3, 7/10 (death attack at level 10, gain minor diving casting)
Night Mask Deathbringer: 4, 8/10
Shade Hunter: 4, 8/10 (gain minor arcane casting)


FR: Unapproachable East
Thayan Slaver: 4, 7, 10/10


FR: Lords of Darkness
Darkmask: 3/5


FR: Lost Empires of Faerun
Cultists of the Shattered Peak: 2, 4/5 (Death Attack at level 5, gain minor arcane casting)
Magelord: 1, 5, 9/10 (full arcane advancement)


FR: Races of Faerun
Warsling Sniper: 1, 3, 5/6, ecl 6, warsling only


FR: Player's Guide to Faerun
Shadow Thief of Amn: 1, 3, 5/5
Zhentarim Spy: 2, 4/5


FR: Serpent Kingdoms
Fang of Sseth: 1, 4, 7, 10/10


FR: Shining South
Crinti Shadow Marauder: 2, 4/5 (Sudden Strike, gains a "Shadow Pounce" at level 5)


FR: Silver Marches
Orc Scout: 3/5
Peerless Archer: 1, 4, 7, 10/10 (ranged only)


FR: Underdark
Imaskari Vengeance Taker: 3, 5, 7, 9/10 (half arcane advancement)


FR: Drow of the Underdark
Dread Fang of Lloth: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9/10 (sudden strike, full BAB)
Eye of Lloth: 2, 5, 8/10 (half caster)[/spoiler]
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Ask a Simple Question: Ragnarok Edition
« Reply #245 on: April 23, 2010, 03:31:50 PM »
Q52  Where can I find a monster which I can use like an acid elemental?
Take a blood elemental (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20030208a), add acid damage?
Isn't there an "acid borne" template (that everyone applies to sharks)?
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

McPoyo

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Re: Ask a Simple Question: Ragnarok Edition
« Reply #246 on: April 23, 2010, 03:32:49 PM »
Q52  Where can I find a monster which I can use like an acid elemental?
Take a blood elemental (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20030208a), add acid damage?
Isn't there an "acid borne" template (that everyone applies to sharks)?
Acid-borne, Dungeonscape.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
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Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

ksbsnowowl

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Re: Ask a Simple Question: Ragnarok Edition
« Reply #247 on: April 23, 2010, 05:09:05 PM »
Q 58: A fell drain magic missile inflicts 1 negative level on each living target it strikes, but only 1 (no hitting someone with all 5 magic missiles to inflict 5 neg levels).  What about a spell that deals repeated damage over several rounds, each with its own attack roll.  Such as a fell draining Chill Touch?  Or fell draining Flaming Sphere?
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Vinom

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Re: Ask a Simple Question: Ragnarok Edition
« Reply #248 on: April 23, 2010, 05:26:12 PM »
A 57: Also from my lists of stuff... [spoiler]Sneak Attack


PHB
Rogue 1, 3, 5, 7.../20


DMG
Arcane Trickster: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10/10 (full caster advancement)
Assassin: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9/10 (Death Attack at level 1, gain minor arcane casting)
Blackguard: 4, 7, 10/10 (gain divine casting at level 1, full BAB)


Psionic
Pionic Rogue: 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, 19/20
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b


Book of Exalted Deeds
Slayer of Domiel: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9/10 (Death Touch at level 1, gain divine casting at level 1)
Sacred Strike, feat, against evil creatures roll d8 for damage instead of d6


Book of Vile Darkness
Cancer Mage: 1, 5, 9/10
Disciple of Baalzebub: 2, 5, 8/10



Complete Warrior (all full BAB)
Dark Hunter: 3/5 (Death Attack at level 5)
Darkwood Stalker: 3, 6, 9/10 (Death Attack at level 10)
Invisible Blade: 1, 3, 5/5 ("dagger" only, faint as free action 1/round)
Justiciar: 1, 4, 7, 10/10 (nonlethal strike)
Ronin: 1, 4, 7, 10/10


Complete Divine
Black Flame Zealot: 3, 6, 9/10 (Death Attack at 1, advances divine half)
Temple Raider of Olidammara: 2, 5, 8/10 (gain divine spells at level 1)


Complete Arcane



Complete Adventurer
Ninja: 1, 3, 5, 7.../20 (Sudden Strike)
Spellthief: 1, 5, 9, 13, 17/20 (gains arcane casting at level 4)
Daggerspell Mage: 3, 6, 9/10 (advances arcane 9/10)
Daggerspell Shaper: 3, 6, 9/10 (advances divine 9/10)
Dread Pirate (dishonourable): 3, 7/10 (full BAB)
Ghost-Faced Killer: 2, 5, 8/10 (Sudden Strike, full BAB)
Nightsong Enforcer: 1, 4, 7, 10/10 (full BAB)
Nightsong Infiltrator: 4, 8/10 (Teamwork Sneak Attack)
Shadowbane Inquisitor: 4, 7, 10/10 (full BAB)
Shadowbane Stalker: 3, 6, 9/10 (advances divine 8/10)
Shadowmind: 2, 5, 8/10 (advances manifesting class 7/10)
Spymaster: 3, 6/7
Streetfighter: 3/5


Complete Psionic
Lurk: 2, 7, 12, 17/20 (psionic sneak attack, only functions while psionically focused)
Ebon Saint: 3/5 (sneak attack or psionic sneak attack)


Complete Mage
Unseen Seer 1, 4, 7, 10/10, ecl 6 (either sneak attack, sudden strike, or skirmish; full arcane advancement)



Complete Scoundrel
Avenging Executioner: 1, 3, 5/5 (sudden strike, gain abilities to make opponent flatfooted)
Cloaked Dancer: 2, 4/5 (suprise strike, 3/5 arcane advancement)
Mountebank 2, 5, 8/10, ecl 7, Complete Scoundrel
Psibond 3, 6, 9/10, ecl 8, Complete Scoundrel
Master of Masks 1, 4, 7, 10/10, ecl 6, only while wearing the Assassin Mask
spellwarp sniper 2, 4/5, ecl 8, (sudden raystrike, see text)


Complete Champion
Mythic Examplar (Dardallion): 3, 5, 7, 9/10 (early entry ecl 5, advances casting 4/10)


Deities and Demigods
Justiciar of Taiia: 1, 4, 7, 10/10, ecl 6 (gain minor divine spellcasting at level 1)


Draconomicon
Dragonstalker: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10/10 (gains 2d6 sneak attack each time, only effective against dragons, full BAB)


Dragon Magic:
Hand of the Winged Masters: 2, 5, 8/10, ecl ?? (sneak attack or sudden strike or skirmish)
Dragon Descendant 3 (subtle ancestor), ecl 8: gain 2d6, see text (also stacks for certain monk abilities)


Fiendish Codex II - Tyrants of the Nine Hells:
Hellbreaker 3, 6, 9/10 (can also steal spell-like or supernatural abilities)


Cityscape
Ebonmar Infiltrator: 2, 5, 8/10, ecl 7 (gain minor Int based arcane casting)


Dungeonscape


Frostburn


Heroes of Battle
Dread Commando: 1, 3, 5/5 (Sudden Strike, full BAB)


Libris Mortis


Lords of Madness


Magic of Incarnum
Umbral Disciple: 2, 5, 8/10


Miniatures Handbook
Skullclan Hunter: 3, 6, 9/10 (can "sneak attack" undead at level 2, read "Divine Strike" wording carefully, not actually sneak attack... I think)
Tactical Soldier: read "Flanker" ability


Planar Handbook
Fatemaker: 3, 6, 9/10 (gains minor Cha based arcane casting)


Races of Destiny
Chameleon: see text
Menacing Brute: 3/5 (full BAB)
Scar Enforcer: 3,6,9/10 (advance half caster)


Races of the Dragon
Dragon Devotee 2, 4/5, ecl 7, (either sneak attack, sudden strike, or skirmish; advances sorcerer casting 2/5)


Races of Stone
Blade Bravo: 4, 8/10 (melee only, full BAB)
Stonedeath Assassin: 2, 4/5 (Stonedeath Strike at level 5)


Races of the Wild
Whisperknife: 2, 5, 8/10 (full BAB)


Sandstorm
Scorpion Heritor: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10/10
race: Marrulurk, small Monstrous Humanoid, 3 HD, +1 LA (ECL 4), 2d6 sneak attack


Stormwrack
Scarlet Corsair 2, 6, 10/10 (full BAB, faint as free action once per 2d4 or 1d4 rounds)


Tome of Battle:
Assassin's Stance, Shadow Hand Stance - gain 2d6 sneak attack


Tome of Magic:
Andromalius vestige - see text
Malphas vestige - see text (sudden strike)
Shadowblade 2, 4, 6, 8, 10/10 (sudden strike, at level 3 gain ability to deny opponent their dex bonus)


Expedition to Castle Ravenloft
Rogue 3: "Penetrating Strike" - exchange trapsense for the ability to do half you sneak attack damage against undead


Eberron Campaign Setting


Eberron: Five Nations
Dark Lantern: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10/10


Magic of Eberron
Vigilant Sentinal of Aerenal: 2, 4/5


Eberron: Secrets of Xen'drik
Scorpion Wraith: 1, 3, 5/5 (sudden strike, full BAB)


Eberron: Secrets of Sarlona
Fist of Dal Quor: 1, 3, 5/5 (sudden strike, also gain stunning attacks)


Eberron: Faiths of Eberron
Thief of Life: 2, 6, 10/10



Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (3.0)
The Divine Seeker: 2, 4/5
Guild Thief: 1, 3, 5/5


FR: Champions of Ruin
Justice of Weald and Woe: 3, 7/10 (death attack at level 10, gain minor diving casting)
Night Mask Deathbringer: 4, 8/10
Shade Hunter: 4, 8/10 (gain minor arcane casting)


FR: Unapproachable East
Thayan Slaver: 4, 7, 10/10


FR: Lords of Darkness
Darkmask: 3/5


FR: Lost Empires of Faerun
Cultists of the Shattered Peak: 2, 4/5 (Death Attack at level 5, gain minor arcane casting)
Magelord: 1, 5, 9/10 (full arcane advancement)


FR: Races of Faerun
Warsling Sniper: 1, 3, 5/6, ecl 6, warsling only


FR: Player's Guide to Faerun
Shadow Thief of Amn: 1, 3, 5/5
Zhentarim Spy: 2, 4/5


FR: Serpent Kingdoms
Fang of Sseth: 1, 4, 7, 10/10


FR: Shining South
Crinti Shadow Marauder: 2, 4/5 (Sudden Strike, gains a "Shadow Pounce" at level 5)


FR: Silver Marches
Orc Scout: 3/5
Peerless Archer: 1, 4, 7, 10/10 (ranged only)


FR: Underdark
Imaskari Vengeance Taker: 3, 5, 7, 9/10 (half arcane advancement)


FR: Drow of the Underdark
Dread Fang of Lloth: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9/10 (sudden strike, full BAB)
Eye of Lloth: 2, 5, 8/10 (half caster)[/spoiler]
Yes, I've looked through all this, but I can't find a class to be the 5th level in the sneak attack build, because I can't qualify for any of those PrC's at 4th level.
A player once asked me if there was any way to make a Tarrasque more evil... 3 sessions later he was stoned with D20s as the PC led an exidus out of the path of a Dire Tarrasque of Legendary Wonder.

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carnivore

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Re: Ask a Simple Question: Ragnarok Edition
« Reply #249 on: April 23, 2010, 05:26:38 PM »
A58
look at the spell:

Fell Drain
Type: Metamagic
Source: Libris Mortis: The Book of the Dead
Living foes damaged by your spell also gain a negative level.
Benefit: You can alter a spell that deals damage to foes so that any living creature that is dealt damage also gains a negative level. If the subject has at least as many negative levels as Hit Dice, it dies. Assuming the subject survives, the negative level disappears (without requiring a Fortitude save) after a number of hours equal to your caster level (maximum 15). A fell draining spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell's actual level.

it could be argued both ways:
1)it only gives a Negative Level when it deals damage the first time
2)it only gives a Negative Level when it deals damage ....... each round it would be able to deal damage and give Negative Levels

depends on your DM .... there is nothing really to support either side conclusively(i lean towards #2)

 :D


kevin_video

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Re: Ask a Simple Question: Ragnarok Edition
« Reply #250 on: April 23, 2010, 05:29:39 PM »
Yes, I've looked through all this, but I can't find a class to be the 5th level in the sneak attack build, because I can't qualify for any of those PrC's at 4th level.
So don't take a PrC. Take another base class that'll give you the one sneak attack damage you need at 1st. If you're already rogue, go psychic rogue. The only real difference between that and the assassin is you get psychic powers instead of spells. And if you've already gotten trapfinding from your original rogue class, switch it out for something else.

Most PrCs require you to be at least 5th level.
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Re: Ask a Simple Question: Ragnarok Edition
« Reply #251 on: April 23, 2010, 05:59:17 PM »
@kevin_video
Can you take both a class and it's variant? I think that would be similar to taking levels in Evoker and levels in Necromancer.
It even says so in the SRD, here. Or do you want to make the case that rogue is as different from psychic rogue as urban ranger is from ranger?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2010, 06:01:23 PM by Aharon »
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Re: Ask a Simple Question: Ragnarok Edition
« Reply #252 on: April 23, 2010, 05:59:46 PM »
1 level in Swordsage at level 5 then take Martial Stance feat at level 6 to gain 2d6 of Sneak?  Or at level 5 take Swordsage and buy the wondrous item of Assassin's Stance?
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Re: Ask a Simple Question: Ragnarok Edition
« Reply #253 on: April 23, 2010, 06:06:27 PM »
Yes, I've looked through all this, but I can't find a class to be the 5th level in the sneak attack build, because I can't qualify for any of those PrC's at 4th level.
So don't take a PrC. Take another base class that'll give you the one sneak attack damage you need at 1st. If you're already rogue, go psychic rogue. The only real difference between that and the assassin is you get psychic powers instead of spells. And if you've already gotten trapfinding from your original rogue class, switch it out for something else.

Most PrCs require you to be at least 5th level.
Thought about it, Psionics are baned...
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Re: Ask a Simple Question: Ragnarok Edition
« Reply #254 on: April 23, 2010, 06:17:57 PM »
1 level in Swordsage at level 5 then take Martial Stance feat at level 6 to gain 2d6 of Sneak?  Or at level 5 take Swordsage and buy the wondrous item of Assassin's Stance?
Assassin's Stance requires an IL of 5.  Even going Sneak Attack classes 4/Swordsage 2 only gives him an IL of 4 by 6th level.
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Re: Ask a Simple Question: Ragnarok Edition
« Reply #255 on: April 23, 2010, 06:26:18 PM »
Q59: Using cure spells in combat is rarely optimized - there are more effective things to do. I know that intuitively, but I'm having a hard time explaining it. I've seen discussions and evidence alluded to here, but I'm having a hard time finding any threads or clear posts - my google fu has failed me.

Could someone direct me to a link?

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Re: Ask a Simple Question: Ragnarok Edition
« Reply #256 on: April 23, 2010, 06:30:14 PM »
Q59: Using cure spells in combat is rarely optimized - there are more effective things to do. I know that intuitively, but I'm having a hard time explaining it. I've seen discussions and evidence alluded to here, but I'm having a hard time finding any threads or clear posts - my google fu has failed me.

Could someone direct me to a link?

Basically:
you aren't likley to heal off all the damage that the opposition is doing
if you buff or attack the enemy you kill them faster and thus the party takes less damage.

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Re: Ask a Simple Question: Ragnarok Edition
« Reply #257 on: April 23, 2010, 06:36:16 PM »
Q59: Using cure spells in combat is rarely optimized - there are more effective things to do. I know that intuitively, but I'm having a hard time explaining it. I've seen discussions and evidence alluded to here, but I'm having a hard time finding any threads or clear posts - my google fu has failed me.

Could someone direct me to a link?

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871786/A_Players_Guide_to_Healing_%28And,_why_you_will_be_Just_Fine_without_a_Cleric_to_heal%29
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

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[/spoiler]

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Re: Ask a Simple Question: Ragnarok Edition
« Reply #258 on: April 23, 2010, 06:41:32 PM »
Q59: Using cure spells in combat is rarely optimized - there are more effective things to do. I know that intuitively, but I'm having a hard time explaining it. I've seen discussions and evidence alluded to here, but I'm having a hard time finding any threads or clear posts - my google fu has failed me.

Could someone direct me to a link?

Basically:
you aren't likley to heal off all the damage that the opposition is doing
if you buff or attack the enemy you kill them faster and thus the party takes less damage.

Yeah, my understanding is that it's a question of throughput.  Even without serious optimization, damage output is generally greater than healing output.  So yeah, while you could reduce your party's damage taken for the round by casting heals, you're probably better off killing one of them instead, since that should reduce your damage intake even more.  That might depend on how evil your DM is though.

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Re: Ask a Simple Question: Ragnarok Edition
« Reply #259 on: April 23, 2010, 06:49:51 PM »
1 level in Swordsage at level 5 then take Martial Stance feat at level 6 to gain 2d6 of Sneak?  Or at level 5 take Swordsage and buy the wondrous item of Assassin's Stance?
Assassin's Stance requires an IL of 5.  Even going Sneak Attack classes 4/Swordsage 2 only gives him an IL of 4 by 6th level.
D'oh!  Should've realized there was a reason no one suggested that yet.
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