Author Topic: Making Death Attack worth it.  (Read 17248 times)

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bearsarebrown

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Making Death Attack worth it.
« on: April 18, 2010, 09:25:06 PM »
Is there a way to deliver it from ranged?
It requires an 'attack with a melee weapon' which means that you could throw a Club, right?  :smirk Or TK ;)
But I'd like a more legit way. Maybe an assassin spell I'm not aware of?

What is simplest way to study a target for 3 rounds?
Plane Shift and watch from the Ethereal Plane? Any other ideas?
Or maybe study from very far away but be able to approach quickly? [in Shining South there is a feat that allows 1/hour a run action to end in a Charge...]

Is Death Attack a death effect?
My gut wants to tell me it is. But I can't find it anywhere in the writeup of the classes I'm using that says it is...

Pimping out that DC
Idea so far is
Cleric 5/ Deathstalker 5* / Strifeleader 10***Dragon 322, **Faiths and Pantheons
This leaves me with 15th level spellcasting and a Death Attack based off Cha. With basic Charisma optimization(spoiler) I can reach +20. This leaves my Death Attack DC at:
10 + 10(Deathstalker levels count twice) + 10(Strifeleader) + 4(Strifeleader ability) + 18(Charisma) + 1(Assassin's Dagger) + 2(Bracer's of Murder) = Dc 55 Fortitude. This is strong but not enough.
Now consider that I'm an Unseelie Fey and took the feat Bind Vestige and Imp Binding for Focalor. I now let out an aura with a 2+Charisma penalty to saves of those adjacent. Ambush feats Sicken and Shake, dropping another 4. This effectively increases the DC by 24.

Now my Death  Attack has an effective DC of 79.

[spoiler]18 Base
02 Assimar/tons of other things
02 Magic Blooded
02 Unseelie Fey
05 Level
05 Tome
06 Item
02 Righteous Aura
04 Devil's Ego
=50 (+18)
[/spoiler]

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[spoiler]Yes, dipping tons of PrCs and getting Bloodlines would get crazy. But that's fucking stupid.[/spoiler]

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[spoiler]
Flaw:  Lion Tribe Warrior
Flaw: Spell Focus (Illusion)
1st Weapon Focus (Longsword)
3rd Quick Draw
Bought Iron Will
6th Cheetah Tribe Sprint
9th Bind Vestage
12th Improved Binding
15th Terrfying Strike (DotU)
18th Sickening Strike (DotU)[/spoiler]

Hide far from enemy and watch them. You're a level 15th Cleric, sneaking should be pretty simple. I charge with a Blade of Pain and Fear(LM) and make a touch attack against the enemy, moving 240ft to his position. I drop 2d6 sneak attack to make him Shaken and Sickened. Now he must make a DC 17 at a -24 or be Frightened. Now he must make a DC 79 or die. If he makes the save or god forbid I miss, then I cast a quickened DeathSight from a Drakehelm with a Metamagic Rod and hit him again, forcing another DC 79.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 11:09:03 PM by bearsarebrown »

Solo

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Re: Making Death Attack worth it.
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2010, 09:42:27 PM »
There are goggles that reduce the study time to two rounds.

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The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Surreal

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Re: Making Death Attack worth it.
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2010, 09:49:37 PM »
Bloodstorm Blade lets you treat all ranged attacks as melee attacks. That'd probable work.

I think any type of divination/scrying should qualify, but the whole "study thing is highly DM dependent.

It follows all the rules of a death attack, but by RAW I think it has to explicitly state it as so
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#deathAttacks

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Saxony

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Re: Making Death Attack worth it.
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2010, 09:57:53 PM »
Yeah, there's an assassin spell which let's you do it from ranged. Sniper's Eye is a 4th level Assassin spell from the Spell Compendium which lets you do it within 60 ft. (among other bonuses).

Enter touch attacks from Master Thrower combined with flatfooted-ness from invisibility/greater invisibility. That solves the problem of actually hitting with the death attack.

The same thing could be done with Deep Impact and Psionics, right? One'd only need to use a single attack, anyway.


Bloodstorm Blade lets you treat all ranged attacks as melee attacks. That'd probable work.

Bloodstorm Blade only lets you treat ranged attack rolls as if they used your melee attack bonus. It does not state your "ranged attacks" are treated as "melee attacks". It's dumb, but its RAW.
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bearsarebrown

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Re: Making Death Attack worth it.
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2010, 10:34:12 PM »
I'm abandoning the Ranged idea. It's just easier to study for melee and travel far in one round. Unseelie gives me a flight speed of 60ft before buffs. When combined with the Shining South feat that allows me to cover 240ft then attack. If I make iteratives after studying and my first attack misses, can the other attacks deliver? I don't think so.

Any good swift action debuffs that don't offer saves? Will probably use something like Sword of Grim and Sadness(or whatever it's called from LM that leaves them Shaken) to turn it into a Touch Attack and spell damage, negating DR.

@Solo, that's great, will add those.

Catching the opponent flatfooted will be a simple matter of hiding then charging.

Zaxter

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Re: Making Death Attack worth it.
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2010, 11:05:57 PM »
There's a level 4 Assassin spell called Deathsight in Complete Mage. Lets you make a Death Attack without the 3 rounds of study. Takes a standard action to cast, but a Metamagic Rod of Quickening can take care of that for you.

Saxony

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Re: Making Death Attack worth it.
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2010, 11:27:34 PM »
I'm abandoning the Ranged idea. It's just easier to study for melee and travel far in one round. Unseelie gives me a flight speed of 60ft before buffs. When combined with the Shining South feat that allows me to cover 240ft then attack. If I make iteratives after studying and my first attack misses, can the other attacks deliver? I don't think so.

Any good swift action debuffs that don't offer saves? Will probably use something like Sword of Grim and Sadness(or whatever it's called from LM that leaves them Shaken) to turn it into a Touch Attack and spell damage, negating DR.

@Solo, that's great, will add those.

Catching the opponent flatfooted will be a simple matter of hiding then charging.

Dip SwordSage 1 for the Cloak of Deception boost for 1 turn of Greater Invisibility. That'll be good enough for the round where you attack for generating flatfooted-ness.

Use the ambush feats from Drow of the Underdark for debuffs. No saves, just sacrifice 2d6 sneak attack to make your opponent to have -4 to saves.

Quote
Sickening Strike: Requires 2d6 sneak attack.  Sacrifice 1d6 sneak attack to make your opponent sickened (-2 to saves).
Terrifying Strike: Requires 2d6 sneak attack.  Sacrifice 1d6 sneak attack to make your opponent shaken (-2 to saves).
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bearsarebrown

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Re: Making Death Attack worth it.
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2010, 11:38:31 PM »
Ability to Greater Blink among generic hiding is enough for flatfootedness I think. I'm pretty strapped for class levels and feats. And check out my spoiler, I just found those same feats.  :lmao

Ed-Zero

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Re: Making Death Attack worth it.
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2010, 01:10:45 AM »
Here's some stuff to up the DC of Death Attack that's not mentioned in the Lists of Stuff link.

Jaezred Chalssin (Feat) - Dragons of Faerun
Thanks to your training the Jaezred Chalssin, you gain a +4 bonus to the Fortitude DC required to avoid the kill effect of your death attack.

Viperfang (Item) - City of Splendors Waterdeep
+1 DC but does poison 1/day too

Anklebite

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Re: Making Death Attack worth it.
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2010, 01:14:26 AM »
Here's some stuff to up the DC of Death Attack that's not mentioned in the Lists of Stuff link.

Jaezred Chalssin (Feat) - Dragons of Faerun
Thanks to your training the Jaezred Chalssin, you gain a +4 bonus to the Fortitude DC required to avoid the kill effect of your death attack.

Viperfang (Item) - City of Splendors Waterdeep
+1 DC but does poison 1/day too
doesn't assassin's dagger from DMG give +2?
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Solo

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Re: Making Death Attack worth it.
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2010, 01:18:29 AM »
+1, actually.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

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skydragonknight

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Re: Making Death Attack worth it.
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2010, 11:42:27 AM »
A fun buff would be Footsteps of the Divine. Release it on the round of the death attack to get a powerful burst of speed.
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Lo77o

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Re: Making Death Attack worth it.
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2010, 02:55:33 PM »
Jaezred Chalssin (Feat) - Dragons of Faerun
Thanks to your training the Jaezred Chalssin, you gain a +4 bonus to the Fortitude DC required to avoid the kill effect of your death attack.

Im doing my best to find this, but i cant seem to do so. Could you give a page number?
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Aharon

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Re: Making Death Attack worth it.
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2010, 03:58:58 PM »
@type of effect
it doesn't say it's a [death] effect. In the text, it's only called a "kill effect", probably the only of its kind. This probably also means you can use it on undead, plants, and constructs with persistant grave strike, vine strike and golem strike.
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rypta

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Re: Making Death Attack worth it.
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2010, 06:00:16 PM »
Jaezred Chalssin (Feat) - Dragons of Faerun
Thanks to your training the Jaezred Chalssin, you gain a +4 bonus to the Fortitude DC required to avoid the kill effect of your death attack.

Im doing my best to find this, but i cant seem to do so. Could you give a page number?

I don't think it is a feat.  I've only seen that bonus mentioned in a section of the web enhancment for Dragons of Faerun and I believe it was listed as a sort of affiliation bonus for being a member of the Jaezred Chalssin organization.  I don't have the page number, but it was on the bottom left of whatever page it was on.

Akalsaris

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Re: Making Death Attack worth it.
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2010, 08:37:29 PM »
Since you have poison use, use a Con-damaging poison to lower the opponents' fort saves even more.  3d6 Con damage would equal -9 Con or -4 to Fort saves, for example.  

Edit: Since the build combines a cleric of bhaal PrC with a cleric of Cyric PrC, I think you could build some cool fluff around the character being an assassin of Bhaal whose spells are secretly being granted by Cyric now, or a cleric who worships Cyric as a new aspect of Bhaal.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2010, 08:42:33 PM by Akalsaris »

Anklebite

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Re: Making Death Attack worth it.
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2010, 08:51:41 PM »
Since you have poison use, use a Con-damaging poison to lower the opponents' fort saves even more.  3d6 Con damage would equal -9 Con or -4 to Fort saves, for example.  

Edit: Since the build combines a cleric of bhaal PrC with a cleric of Cyric PrC, I think you could build some cool fluff around the character being an assassin of Bhaal whose spells are secretly being granted by Cyric now, or a cleric who worships Cyric as a new aspect of Bhaal.
3d6 con is an average of 10.5, so -5 to fort saves average.
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skydragonknight

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Re: Making Death Attack worth it.
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2010, 09:13:19 PM »
Since you have poison use, use a Con-damaging poison to lower the opponents' fort saves even more.  3d6 Con damage would equal -9 Con or -4 to Fort saves, for example.  

I'm pretty sure that anything that can beat a DC 55 to begin with can beat the DC 20-something of Black Lotus Extract. We're looking at a 5% success rate. Bad investment.
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Anklebite

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Re: Making Death Attack worth it.
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2010, 09:20:13 PM »
Since you have poison use, use a Con-damaging poison to lower the opponents' fort saves even more.  3d6 Con damage would equal -9 Con or -4 to Fort saves, for example.  

I'm pretty sure that anything that can beat a DC 55 to begin with can beat the DC 20-something of Black Lotus Extract. We're looking at a 5% success rate. Bad investment.
depends on how much you are using. I prefer amounts measured in gallons, made with minor creation.
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Phoenix00

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Re: Making Death Attack worth it.
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2010, 09:23:21 PM »
1 level of Rogue would get you the alternative class feature where you sacrifice your trapfinding ability but gain the ability to attack creatures normally immune to sneak attack with sneak attack (but at 1/2 damage) allowing you to sneak attack everybody.