Author Topic: Help With The Ancient Master: Old Man Martial Artist with Str 6, VoP, and VoN  (Read 5014 times)

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Negative Zero

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Wait, you can ready the same maneuver multiple times?

Huh. I don't know why that never occurred to me.

I actually don't think you can. Especially as a Crusader.

Further, you can't get a level 2 stance with your first level in a Martial Adept class - it mentions that your first stance is always a level 1 stance.

shadowmaster62

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Even just dipping Sword Sage 1 for the Cloak of Deception maneuver (Shadow hand 2) is awesome. It has no prerequisites, its a boost, and it gives you Greater Invisibility until the end of your turn. And you can ready 4 of them at Sword Sage 1.

So you're pretty much guaranteed to have people flatfooted for 4 rounds every encounter for your full attacks. Combine that with touch attacks... Ya'll know the rest.

Neg Zero is right about the stance, though you can always take a feat to get another, or just do swordsage 2 (nothin wrong with that).

Edit: Regarding readying the same maneuver,  Custserv ruled that you couldn't ready the same maneuver more than once.


Fist of the Forest (CC) is a nice PrC for the poverty types. Over Whelming Attack Monk 1 (UA) gives Power Attack & Improved Unarmed Strike and you can reasonably pick up Great Fortitude using the Weak Fortitude flaw allowing you to enter it easy enough. It gives con to ac while unarmored, fast movement and an upgrade to unarmed attack damage. All as a single level dip.

As mentioned, Shiba Protector (OA) gives your wisdom bonus to attack and damage.

Also, more Warblade. It gives a bonus feat on the 5th level, the opportunity to take Weapon Specialization and thus Melee Weapon Mastery at the 6th, your intelligence bonus to damage when flanking or hitting flat-footed foes, and has a better maneuver recovery system.

So with that in mind.
Warblade 7 / Overwhelming Attack Monk 1 / Fist of the Forest 1 / Shibra Protector 1 / Unarmed Swordsage 2 / Master of Nine 3

The FotF looks promising, but I won't have much of a con score. The speed/damage is nice, though.

I've been looking for ways to boost my Trip for throw maneuvers without items. I can boost my Dex, but are there any feats other than Imp. Trip or any PrCs that boost trip?
« Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 05:02:57 PM by shadowmaster62 »

Brainpiercing

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Fist of Dal Quor could add some damage via sudden strike and advances stunning fist attempts nicely (and you can blow PPs to increase the DC). It's actually a comparatively nice monk-like class. Unfortunately sudden strike can't do non-lethal damage. However, as long as you don't kill them noone says you can't injure them, right? If you use Martial Spirit stance you can heal them after downing them :). Shape Soulmeld(Therapeutic Mantle) (along with Azure Talent to add some power points which you can blow on the stunning fist) can dramatically increase healing with Martial Spirit.



I've been looking for ways to boost my Trip for throw maneuvers without items. I can boost my Dex, but are there any feats other than Imp. Trip or any PrCs that boost trip?


One of the Berserker feats from Frostburn gives you another +4 on tripping.

PhaedrusXY

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One of the Berserker feats from Frostburn gives you another +4 on tripping.
Wolf Berserker from Unapproachable East does that, but you'd have to start out as a barbarian member of a berserker lodge of Rasheman... It also acts as a prereq for Improved Trip, though. So you can take it without needing Int 13 or Expertise.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Brainpiercing

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One of the Berserker feats from Frostburn gives you another +4 on tripping.
Wolf Berserker from Unapproachable East does that, but you'd have to start out as a barbarian member of a berserker lodge of Rasheman... It also acts as a prereq for Improved Trip, though. So you can take it without needing Int 13 or Expertise.
Damn, I got mixed up...

shadowmaster62

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One of the Berserker feats from Frostburn gives you another +4 on tripping.
Wolf Berserker from Unapproachable East does that, but you'd have to start out as a barbarian member of a berserker lodge of Rasheman... It also acts as a prereq for Improved Trip, though. So you can take it without needing Int 13 or Expertise.
Damn, I got mixed up...

Barbarian would seem a little tricky, and after doing some looking myself, it looks like genuinely optimizing tripping will be hard, though I'll still take improved trip. The premise of the setting sun school is "strength is an illusion", yet their signature powers rely largely on strength  :mad


Fist of Dal Quor could add some damage via sudden strike and advances stunning fist attempts nicely (and you can blow PPs to increase the DC). It's actually a comparatively nice monk-like class. Unfortunately sudden strike can't do non-lethal damage. However, as long as you don't kill them no one says you can't injure them, right? If you use Martial Spirit stance you can heal them after downing them :). Shape Soulmeld(Therapeutic Mantle) (along with Azure Talent to add some power points which you can blow on the stunning fist) can dramatically increase healing with Martial Spirit.


Actually, the VoN & VoPeace feats stipulate that you can never do anything but non-lethal damage, but can't sudden strike be made nonlethal with an unarmed strike? Sneak attack can be.


Also, I was looking at Nifft's very impressive collection of ToB homebrew, which includes a martial monk and the Sanguine Lotus/Crescent Moon schools (http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-house-rules/187901-tob-bo9s-niffts-compendium.html). They seem well made to me, but I would appreciate second thoughts from anyone who has played with them. I figure there must be someone besides me who has run a ToB themed campaign and gone looking for more material. :smirk

dark_samuari

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I've been looking for ways to boost my Trip for throw maneuvers without items. I can boost my Dex, but are there any feats other than Imp. Trip or any PrCs that boost trip?

Factotum can add your intelligence to your trip, as well as giving you a more than healthy dosage of skill points (which you can sink into some really unique skills like Autohypnosis and the Knowledge groups).
« Last Edit: April 20, 2010, 03:42:30 AM by dark_samuari »

Brainpiercing

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Actually, the VoN & VoPeace feats stipulate that you can never do anything but non-lethal damage, but can't sudden strike be made nonlethal with an unarmed strike? Sneak attack can be.
Weeell, it says in the class description that you can't use it for non-lethal damage. However, I think any remotely well-meaning DM will allow you to house-rule this.


Factotum can add your intelligence to your trip, as well as giving you a more than healthy dosage of skill points (which you can sink into some really unique skills like Autohypnosis and the Knowledge groups).
This. Dip Factotum 3 and BOB's your uncle :).

Garryl

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One of the Berserker feats from Frostburn gives you another +4 on tripping.
Wolf Berserker from Unapproachable East does that, but you'd have to start out as a barbarian member of a berserker lodge of Rasheman... It also acts as a prereq for Improved Trip, though. So you can take it without needing Int 13 or Expertise.
Damn, I got mixed up...

Barbarian would seem a little tricky, and after doing some looking myself, it looks like genuinely optimizing tripping will be hard, though I'll still take improved trip. The premise of the setting sun school is "strength is an illusion", yet their signature powers rely largely on strength  :mad

Most of the Setting Sun trip/throw maneuvers specify that you can use your Dexterity in place of Strength for resolving the trip attempt. Some of them don't specifically have that clause, but reference Might Throw so that its implied.
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[spoiler]
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Anklebite

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One of the Berserker feats from Frostburn gives you another +4 on tripping.
Wolf Berserker from Unapproachable East does that, but you'd have to start out as a barbarian member of a berserker lodge of Rasheman... It also acts as a prereq for Improved Trip, though. So you can take it without needing Int 13 or Expertise.
Damn, I got mixed up...

Barbarian would seem a little tricky, and after doing some looking myself, it looks like genuinely optimizing tripping will be hard, though I'll still take improved trip. The premise of the setting sun school is "strength is an illusion", yet their signature powers rely largely on strength  :mad

Most of the Setting Sun trip/throw maneuvers specify that you can use your Dexterity in place of Strength for resolving the trip attempt. Some of them don't specifically have that clause, but reference Might Throw so that its implied.
they all say "as mighty throw, except for" don't they?
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PhaedrusXY

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Stand Still might be another feat to consider.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Garryl

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Barbarian would seem a little tricky, and after doing some looking myself, it looks like genuinely optimizing tripping will be hard, though I'll still take improved trip. The premise of the setting sun school is "strength is an illusion", yet their signature powers rely largely on strength  :mad

Most of the Setting Sun trip/throw maneuvers specify that you can use your Dexterity in place of Strength for resolving the trip attempt. Some of them don't specifically have that clause, but reference Might Throw so that its implied.
they all say "as mighty throw, except for" don't they?
Yes, but none of them say that you no longer can use the better of Strength or Dexterity, which means they still inherit it from Mighty Throw.
A Guide to Free D&D - A resource of free, official D&D resources on the web.
General listing of my homebrew.
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[spoiler]
Idiot Crusader, refreshing maneuvers for free every round.
The Opposed Checks Handbook - Under construction.
Adaptations Handbook - Under construction.
[/spoiler]

shadowmaster62

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One of the Berserker feats from Frostburn gives you another +4 on tripping.
Wolf Berserker from Unapproachable East does that, but you'd have to start out as a barbarian member of a berserker lodge of Rasheman... It also acts as a prereq for Improved Trip, though. So you can take it without needing Int 13 or Expertise.
Damn, I got mixed up...

Barbarian would seem a little tricky, and after doing some looking myself, it looks like genuinely optimizing tripping will be hard, though I'll still take improved trip. The premise of the setting sun school is "strength is an illusion", yet their signature powers rely largely on strength  :mad

Most of the Setting Sun trip/throw maneuvers specify that you can use your Dexterity in place of Strength for resolving the trip attempt. Some of them don't specifically have that clause, but reference Might Throw so that its implied.
they all say "as mighty throw, except for" don't they?

You can use your dexterity for all the throws in the school, what I was talking about was more that using the Setting Sun throws effectively requires that you optimize trip to some extent, and if you are optimizing trip to any extent, you're going to want a high strength so all your other trips (not SS throws) don't suck. It's a strange sort of Catch-22.



Stand Still might be another feat to consider.

Don't have the strength for it, but it's an easy oversight to make. I've been surprised by how different it is to try and build a melee character with Str 6.