Author Topic: Wand Abuse - Migrated from Deliberations  (Read 6893 times)

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BruceLeeroy

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Wand Abuse - Migrated from Deliberations
« on: April 16, 2010, 07:24:39 PM »
Apparently this forum gets more responses. I suppose it's more appropriate, too.

I've got an artificer that would like to be able to blow shit up as quickly as possible, regardless of the GP cost. I'm aware of the Rod of Many Wands, the Metamagic Wand Grip, the dual-wand wielder and wand mastery feats. I've checked out the optional gems you can add to wands in Magic of Faerun. I'd like advice on going nova with wands, if there's anything I've missed.

Specifically, I seem to recall seeing a different multiple-wand holding device, and also some crystals or gems of some kind that maximized the wand they were attached to, out of some Forgotten Realms product. Ring a bell for anyone?

skydragonknight

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Re: Wand Abuse - Migrated from Deliberations
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2010, 07:52:55 PM »
I forget the optimizataion of it, but there's Cannith Wand Adept (Sharn City of Towers).

If you have Action Points, Wand Surge from Magic of Eberron. Combined with the spell that gives action points every round and you can save life on more expensive wands.

Also from Magic of Eberron: Dragon Prophesier + Prophecy's Artifex gives you the option to activate a wand or staff you made yourself as a swift action while in Prophetic Favor. Though it takes a full-round action to enter that state.
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Anklebite

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Re: Wand Abuse - Migrated from Deliberations
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2010, 07:54:18 PM »
abuse the shit out of metamagic spell trigger. that wand of orb of fire? no, it's a twinned maximized empowered admixtured  fel draining fell weakening repeating scorching searing orb of fire.
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BruceLeeroy

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Re: Wand Abuse - Migrated from Deliberations
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2010, 08:12:31 PM »
That's a fuck-lot of feats to have on a dedicated crafter. I've got quicken, sculpt, twin, and extend. Those seem to be the workhorses of versatility. I can't cram any more onto this guy, he's already loaded with crafting feats and qualifying for the aforementioned wand adept class (which is pretty hot shit if you don't mind the CL loss, which due to campaign specific restrictions, I don't).
« Last Edit: April 16, 2010, 10:58:09 PM by BruceLeeroy »

skydragonknight

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Re: Wand Abuse - Migrated from Deliberations
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2010, 08:25:03 PM »
Yeah, there's plenty of options and cramming them all into one build is (probably) impossible.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Anklebite

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Re: Wand Abuse - Migrated from Deliberations
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2010, 01:47:53 AM »
was just making an example.  :D
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BruceLeeroy

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Re: Wand Abuse - Migrated from Deliberations
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2010, 03:41:38 PM »
was just making an example.  :D

Rgr. While that would be cool and do exactly what I want (which is essentially an impressive fireworks show), I'd get bored with a build so centered on it. For one, it wouldn't be able to truly take advantage of the wands, due to WBL limits not being overcome by crafting.

skydragonknight

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Re: Wand Abuse - Migrated from Deliberations
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2010, 03:45:37 PM »
Would you rather burn through wand a dozen charges for maximum effect or create the best effort for just a handful of charges?
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BruceLeeroy

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Re: Wand Abuse - Migrated from Deliberations
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2010, 04:03:53 PM »
Ideally, I'd like to be capable of both. At the moment, the character in question is an NPC, so his build is somewhat fluid. For future optimizaional purposes, I'd really like to explore all my options.

 I like the idea of having a hold-out trick. For instance, the artificer currently has a Rod of Many Wands with a wand of Dispel Magic (CL10), Enervation, and Orb of Force (CL14). I figure that should be a nice little anti-mage bazooka. Expensive, but difficult for most NPC casters to deal with. Ray Deflection would hopefully get knocked out by the Dispel Magic before the ranged touch attacks are rolled, but I don't know if there is a RAW ruling to that.

LunaticsLament

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Re: Wand Abuse - Migrated from Deliberations
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2010, 10:41:29 PM »
Let me know how this goes, I'm very interested on what you come up with for this.
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LargePrime

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Re: Wand Abuse - Migrated from Deliberations
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2010, 11:53:25 PM »
if you Google 'optimized artificer' there is a huge thread on 339 that discusses the options.

IIRC you convert levels of wealth into a small number of attacks.  Far less efficient damage/GP than the ninjaficer.

BruceLeeroy

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Re: Wand Abuse - Migrated from Deliberations
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2010, 02:34:41 AM »
By ninjaficer, I suppose you mean a persistent-based bufficer?

Edit: Why do you call the WotC boards 339?

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Re: Wand Abuse - Migrated from Deliberations
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2010, 03:14:22 AM »
Edit: Why do you call the WotC boards 339?

Back when Gleemax didn't fuck everything up, the old CO boards had 339 in their HTML code.


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Re: Wand Abuse - Migrated from Deliberations
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2010, 04:29:13 AM »
399 was practical optimization, to distinguish with 330 which was theoretical...

I think they renamed the boards a few times, which resulted in the urls being more useful as identifiers.
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BruceLeeroy

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Re: Wand Abuse - Migrated from Deliberations
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2010, 07:04:56 AM »
So, I suppose, as Caelic mentioned in that monstrosity of a thread, that a generalist artificer is probably the best route. With little effort, he can cover most any situational effectively, he simply won't be better than an optimized specialist at that role (ninja, fighter, buffer, blaster).

Probably as good in most cases, though.

With metamagic item infusion, I can apply quickened and twinned to either a pair of Orb of Force or Energy Sub: Acid Fireball wands. Along with Dual Wand User, this means 6 of the aforementioned spells in a round. Either 84D6 force damage on 1-3 targets, or 60d6 to an area. Good enough for nova blasting. Using the Cannith Wand Adept dual wand use, that means 1d4 charges from each wand, each round. Can be done with no prep time for 1d4+8 charges from one wand, 2d4+16 charges from the other. That's damn spendy, but if you have to use it, it's probably worth it. I can't imagine a situation occurring in my games where I would need more than that.

Buffs, fighting, and ninja can be covered with good spell selection.

LargePrime

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Re: Wand Abuse - Migrated from Deliberations
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2010, 10:30:42 AM »
By ninjaficer, I suppose you mean a persistent-based bufficer?
Caelic used Ninjaficer as a name for a sneak attack bufficer optimization. level 13 = 6 attacks at 2d6+ 15d6 Precision.  While an interesting exercise, it showed, again, how a generalist artificer can be almost as effective as a specilist, while retaining flexibility.
Also, for me, it showed how a bufficer is far more practical in game terms than virtually any other configuration.  And how blastificers suck.

For example Quicken and Fell drain, on a wand of Magic missile (for the auto hit) really puts the sting to the BBEG.  And you can pull it out of nowhere at 7th level.  Of course Fell Drain Bane on your Elven Double Bow (for a third level slot) does it better for no gold cost and only a standard action/round.

I remember for a while blastificer builds were everywhere.  But I really don't think they are playable as they take to much gold.  As other posters back then took the time to point out.

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Re: Wand Abuse - Migrated from Deliberations
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2010, 11:12:38 AM »
By ninjaficer, I suppose you mean a persistent-based bufficer?
I remember for a while blastificer builds were everywhere.  But I really don't think they are playable as they take to much gold.  As other posters back then took the time to point out.
There are posters that will point out you are never more than a level behind (if that) when it comes to crafting as an Artificer. I suppose nuking out 50k per battle and having to craft anew from there changes things alot though.
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LargePrime

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Re: Wand Abuse - Migrated from Deliberations
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2010, 11:25:05 AM »
It's not about the XP, its about the GP.

And the glass cannon phenom.  And there are so many ways for the BBEG to negate blasting.

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Re: Wand Abuse - Migrated from Deliberations
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2010, 02:45:24 PM »
Ideally, I'd like to be capable of both. At the moment, the character in question is an NPC, so his build is somewhat fluid. For future optimizaional purposes, I'd really like to explore all my options.

 I like the idea of having a hold-out trick. For instance, the artificer currently has a Rod of Many Wands with a wand of Dispel Magic (CL10), Enervation, and Orb of Force (CL14). I figure that should be a nice little anti-mage bazooka. Expensive, but difficult for most NPC casters to deal with. Ray Deflection would hopefully get knocked out by the Dispel Magic before the ranged touch attacks are rolled, but I don't know if there is a RAW ruling to that.

I believe that Orb of Force caps at CL 10, instead of CL 15 for the other Orbs.

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Re: Wand Abuse - Migrated from Deliberations
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2010, 04:37:50 PM »
It's not about the XP, its about the GP.

And the glass cannon phenom.  And there are so many ways for the BBEG to negate blasting.
Third Eye: Dampen, for instance.
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