Author Topic: [3.5] Acolyte of the Skin - making the best of it  (Read 10109 times)

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Reko

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[3.5] Acolyte of the Skin - making the best of it
« on: April 15, 2010, 08:02:27 AM »
Hi there!

First post after many months of lurking and digesting information.

I like this class.  Mainly thematically, but some of the abilities interest me.  Now I know the AotS is a bit rubbish as far as CO work goes, but I have been trying to maximise it for use in an upcoming evil 3.5 party.  My current plan is this:

Human (maximising Int and Dex)
Rogue 2/Swashbuckler 3/Assassin 5/AotS 10
Use TWF, and act as a stealthy damage dealer with a few useful skills/skill tricks/spells.

I'd prefer to get to level 10 in AotS for the outsider status, but I'm open to any other ideas  :)

Books: PHB, PHBII, DMG, Completes, Libris Mortis, BoVD, Spell Compendium.

ninjarabbit

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Re: [3.5] Acolyte of the Skin - making the best of it
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2010, 08:29:48 AM »
Warlocks and hexblades can make decent AotSs since neither one of the care as much about losing CLs as the full spellcasters

Runestar

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Re: [3.5] Acolyte of the Skin - making the best of it
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2010, 10:59:02 AM »
They couldn't salvage it in tome and blood, and I believe it is equally hopeless in complete arcane. I am surprised the designers did not use this opportunity to give it 8/10 spellcasting progression or replicate the half-fiend template or something.  :eh
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cru

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Re: [3.5] Acolyte of the Skin - making the best of it
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2010, 11:20:21 AM »
I guess you could use it to progress Suel Arcanamach casting. Consider entering with the feat Keeper of the Forbidden Lore (FC1; hmm, not on your book list) to get the skills.

Reko

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Re: [3.5] Acolyte of the Skin - making the best of it
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2010, 12:28:48 PM »
Yep, the class is pretty rubbish.  I didn't think it would be worth combining with normal spellcasters due to losing 5 caster levels for effects that can be replicated by spells, so I went with Assassin as I think the AotS abilities partially complement the Assassin style.

Maybe a Rogue/Warlock base?

Brainpiercing

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Re: [3.5] Acolyte of the Skin - making the best of it
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2010, 01:11:09 PM »
Perhaps... an Ur-Priest can work:

But try as I may I can't find a good way to take Ur-Priest by 7th level with 6 casting levels before that, so that I can get CL5 after Ur-Priest 2. Either the Fort save is missing, or the will save, or the 6 casting levels, or I'm just using a bad breakpoint.

Perhaps... Duskblade6/Ur-Priest2/Acolyte10/any Divine PrC rest. Should get you to 9th level divines, and you can channel Greater Curses and the like. I'd love to do this with Duskblade3, but don't know how.

For CL shenanigans perhaps add Spellthief1 (with Master Spellthief and Practiced Spellcaster).

ninjarabbit

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Re: [3.5] Acolyte of the Skin - making the best of it
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2010, 04:53:40 PM »
hexblade5/abjurantchampion5/AotS10

17 BAB, 20 CL with practed spellcaster thanks to abjurant champion, 4th level hexbalde spells, actually ends up as a decent gish-lite with the d10 hit dice from hexblade and AC and d8 hit dice from AotS

McPoyo

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Re: [3.5] Acolyte of the Skin - making the best of it
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2010, 05:07:47 PM »
Perhaps... an Ur-Priest can work:

But try as I may I can't find a good way to take Ur-Priest by 7th level with 6 casting levels before that, so that I can get CL5 after Ur-Priest 2. Either the Fort save is missing, or the will save, or the 6 casting levels, or I'm just using a bad breakpoint.

Perhaps... Duskblade6/Ur-Priest2/Acolyte10/any Divine PrC rest. Should get you to 9th level divines, and you can channel Greater Curses and the like. I'd love to do this with Duskblade3, but don't know how.

For CL shenanigans perhaps add Spellthief1 (with Master Spellthief and Practiced Spellcaster).
Warlock4/ranger1/urpriest2 + practiced spellcaster.
[Spoiler]
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They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

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Solo

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Re: [3.5] Acolyte of the Skin - making the best of it
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2010, 04:33:15 AM »
According to the C. Arcane, the Acolyte of the Skin is best for a Sorcerer, Warlock of Wizard. If you don't use one of those classes, then you're a dirty munchkin.

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Runestar

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Re: [3.5] Acolyte of the Skin - making the best of it
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2010, 05:21:23 AM »
According to the C. Arcane, the Acolyte of the Skin is best for a Sorcerer, Warlock of Wizard. If you don't use one of those classes, then you're a dirty munchkin.
Yes, because we all know that the ability to fire laser beams from your eyes 1/day is on par with 8th lv spells.... :P
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Brainpiercing

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Re: [3.5] Acolyte of the Skin - making the best of it
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2010, 06:46:04 AM »
Warlock4/ranger1/urpriest2 + practiced spellcaster.

Hmm, unforunately Warlock 4 is just such a dead end. I mean, it's worse than even one reserve feat after a while. Of course I was stupid: Practiced Spellcaster always works, so...

Duskblade3/Warblade2/Ur-Priest2/Acolyte10/any divine rest

1)SF(Evil),
h)Iron Will (don't think the Hole is in the books listed, but I may be wrong)...
3)Practiced SC
6)Extend Spell
9)Persistent spell
12)DMM(Persist)

Of course you can get it quicker:

Duskblade3/CC1/Warblade1/Ur2/Acolyte10
1)SF(Evil)
h)Iron Will
3)Practiced SC
Cleric: Extend, Extra Turning,
6)Persist
9)DMM(Persist)
12)

You've got, arguably, two batches of turning, and extra turning for lots of turns.

Grim Sage

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Re: [3.5] Acolyte of the Skin - making the best of it
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2010, 07:00:49 AM »
Minor note: Otyugh Hole is in Complete Scoundrel, which IS on the list.

Reko

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Re: [3.5] Acolyte of the Skin - making the best of it
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2010, 07:01:47 AM »
Thanks for all the replies - I hadn't even considered adding divine spellcasting.  Interesting...

I'm going to have to look up Ur-Priest...

Also, which book is Warblade from and what is CC in the above build?

Grim Sage

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Re: [3.5] Acolyte of the Skin - making the best of it
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2010, 07:15:26 AM »
- Warblade is from the Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords. A great dip to grab some maneuvers (at the level suggested you have access to second level maneuvers, which can be used to grab the save-enhancing maneuvers and a decent stance).

- CC is (almost certainly) Cloistered Cleric - a popular one-level dip granting 6 skillpoint/level, Knowledge Domain (usually exchanged for Knowledge Devotion) plus two other domains (which can be used to grab some extra feats, popularly Planning and Undeath for Extend Spell and Extra Turning to use with DMM: Persist). Like a regular cleric, it also grants stong Fort and Will saves which help to qualify for Ur-Priest, and Turn Undead for use with DMM: Persist.
You will lose the spellcasting when you enter Ur-Priest, but keep the rest - a trade-off well worth it.

EDIT: Arguably, you don't get a second turning(rebukiung) pool from Cloistered Cleric if you're evil - since evil clerics can only channel negative energy, you'd end up with your cleric level stacking with Ur-Priest for the purpose of rebuking, instead of granting another pool. Now, if you'd take a Neutral alignment or play an Azurin...
« Last Edit: April 16, 2010, 07:20:38 AM by Grim Sage »

Reko

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Re: [3.5] Acolyte of the Skin - making the best of it
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2010, 07:19:34 AM »
Cheers - I don't have access to Tome of Battle, unfortunately.

Also - what is DMM?

Grim Sage

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Re: [3.5] Acolyte of the Skin - making the best of it
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2010, 07:21:49 AM »
Divine Metamagic - one of the most popular ways of bypassing metamagic costs - it lets you use turn or rebuke attempts to power metamagic instead of using higher-level spell slots. It's in Complete Divine.

Brainpiercing

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Re: [3.5] Acolyte of the Skin - making the best of it
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2010, 07:45:35 AM »
Sorry, missed that ToB wasn't in. Well, I temporarily forgot while writing the last post. Without that.... you COULD of course take Rogue2, or, if you want Wis to AC, Ninja2 (but Sudden Strike is strictly inferior). Ranger doesn't really add that much, apart from skill points and TWF, if you are so inclined. Fighter will lack just those, or else it wouldn't even be a bad choice. Scout is definitely an option, but a bit of a dead end.

Grim Sage

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Re: [3.5] Acolyte of the Skin - making the best of it
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2010, 08:22:36 AM »
A bit of random brainstorming on this:
Skills you need: Bluff 6, Knowledge (arcana) 5, Knowledge (the planes) 5, Knowledge (religion) 8, Spellcraft 8.
- Considering Duskblade 3 for Arcane Channeling and the base save prereqs, you have 2 more levels to gather the skills you need.
- Assume Human with an Int of 12 for some flexibility in skills and ability to cast the few Duskblade spells you get access to. This leaves us with 12 skillpoints from your Duskblade levels, in any knowledge skill or in spellcraft.
- You'll want Bluff as a class skill for at least one level. Alternatively, grab Apprentice (Criminal) from DMGII, if allowed. More than 2 skillpoints per level is nice but not strictly necessary - you'll hit exactly the required 32 skill points if you can buy them all as class skills with only 2 SP/lvl (= 4 with int 12 and human).
- Possibilities include Feat Rogue, the aforementioned Cloistered Cleric, Hexblade, Human Paragon in addition to the ones mentioned earlier in the thread. Two levels of Monk or the evil Paladin variants are possible only if you can get bluff through Apprentice or another feat.

EDIT: Actually, since Unearthed Arcana isn't on the list, can you even use those variants? Are you limited by those books exactly, is the SRD fair game or is it just everything you have access to (the latter case adding several more options)
« Last Edit: April 16, 2010, 08:40:44 AM by Grim Sage »

genuine

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Re: [3.5] Acolyte of the Skin - making the best of it
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2010, 01:25:12 PM »
Warlock4/ranger1/urpriest2 + practiced spellcaster.
Duskblade3/Warblade2/Ur-Priest2/Acolyte10/any divine rest

1)SF(Evil),
h)Iron Will (don't think the Hole is in the books listed, but I may be wrong)...
3)Practiced SC
6)Extend Spell
9)Persistent spell
12)DMM(Persist)

That actually looks fun - I might have to slap together a variant of that. I'd probably grab Swordsage instead of Warblade for the extra AC and more utilitarian manuevers. I've also always wanted to channel a harm spell. :)

Reko

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Re: [3.5] Acolyte of the Skin - making the best of it
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2010, 02:04:21 PM »
EDIT: Actually, since Unearthed Arcana isn't on the list, can you even use those variants? Are you limited by those books exactly, is the SRD fair game or is it just everything you have access to (the latter case adding several more options)
Unfortunately, no.  Only the books listed  :(