Author Topic: [3.5] Metaclass levels and prestige spells  (Read 1620 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Amechra

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2328
  • Thread Necromancy a Specialty
[3.5] Metaclass levels and prestige spells
« on: April 15, 2010, 01:04:28 AM »
Hello, and welcome to this insane little concept.

A little backstory: I was looking at the Chameleon, and I randomly started thinking of it as the meta-class. Then I came up with the following.

Metaclassing is similar, in some ways, to metamagic, but ends up being different. I'll use a converted Echoing Spell metamagic to explain the concept. Let's say that you are creating a 10th level barbarian, and want him to be a little... different; you want him to be able to recover rages. What you do is, let's say, pick levels 3, 6, and 8 are Echoing Feature barbarian levels. Please note that you can only apply one Metaclass to any one class level (think of it like a PrC if you want), and it counts towards levels in that class; i.e. you gain class features as normal. Alright, now you have a Barbarian 7/Barbarian(Echoing) 3; now what? Well, to tap the power of your new "PrC", you treat your character as if all those PrC levels were drained; treat him like a Barbarian 7 (Don't worry, you regain the lost levels after a good night's sleep). So, to give an example of how this would be used, let's say that our Barbarian Bob goes into one of his 3 daily rages; he loses one of them, and he wants it back. So he triggers the Echoing effect, drops to level 7, and regains a rage.

Now for prestige spells. This is when you take a spell (say MM), and want to alter it. Let's say you want to give it the almighty "placeholder" effect in addition to what it already has. To do this, you replace MM with "placeholder" in your spellbook for a number of days equal to spell level*The base amount of days "placeholder" needs, let's say 3. You have to cast it at least once each day, and some PrS will require more times per day. After you cast it the necessary amount of times over the necessary amounts of days, you would permanently replace MM with MM/"Placeholder", which would be, in this case, a 3rd level spell. The equation for this would be (Base Spell Level+PrS-1)=New Spell Level.

Well, what do you think? I want opinions, possible Metaclasses and Prestige Spells, and balance suggestions; I personally think this could lead to thousand of possible variations on otherwise predictable classes. Feel free to suggest flavor.

Thanks in advance :D!
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

Garryl

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1240
Re: [3.5] Metaclass levels and prestige spells
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2010, 01:21:53 AM »
I'm having a bit of trouble getting my head around the mechanics you're proposing. Taking the example of the Echoing Barbarian, for instance...

At 10th level, he'd be a Barbarian 7/Echoing Barbarian 3. He'd have all of the stats and class features of a 10th level barbarian. Once per day, he can Echo hit class features, gaining back any daily uses of his 3rd, 6th, and 8th level class features he's used. However, when he does that, he loses all class features, skill, feats, ability adjustments, spells, hit dice, saving throw bonuses, BaB, etc. from the past 3 levels of Barbarian (ie: levels 8, 9, and 10). He gains that back after a good night's rest. Is that right?


Prestige spells seem like permanent metamagic effects at -1 spell level. As you describe them, they have no real cost (casting arbitrary amounts of spells for arbitrary numbers of days means nothing; for comparison, crafting magic items can take months and is done during down time; Dragonwrought Kobolds tend to sit in caves doing nothing for decades before and between campaigns for aging bonuses) and permanently turn a known spell into a specifically metamagiced version of that spell at -1 spell level compared to what it would normally be. Am I getting that right?
A Guide to Free D&D - A resource of free, official D&D resources on the web.
General listing of my homebrew.
Links to things I've worked on
[spoiler]
Idiot Crusader, refreshing maneuvers for free every round.
The Opposed Checks Handbook - Under construction.
Adaptations Handbook - Under construction.
[/spoiler]

Amechra

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2328
  • Thread Necromancy a Specialty
Re: [3.5] Metaclass levels and prestige spells
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2010, 02:18:52 AM »
You're right about the Metaclassing, that is precisely how it works; as for the PrS, there are slight differences from metamagic. Firstly, "Placeholder" wouldn't be something like Maximise; it would probably be far more similar if you thought of it as adding a burst effect after it hits. Some other differences are that you have to be casting this during the campaign, it takes up slots you could actually be using for useful spells, and it adds on components, so maybe you need a focus for MM/"Placeholder", instead of just a somatic and vocal components. Also a clarification; the minimum level you are allowed to raise the spell is one.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2010, 02:22:15 AM by Amechra »
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

bearsarebrown

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2616
Re: [3.5] Metaclass levels and prestige spells
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2010, 02:40:17 AM »
I understand the intent but I feel like it's very complex and would require tons of bookkeeping.

Amechra

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2328
  • Thread Necromancy a Specialty
Re: [3.5] Metaclass levels and prestige spells
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2010, 02:52:14 AM »
I can see how PrS would be a bookkeeping nightmare; any ideas on fixing it?
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

Garryl

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1240
Re: [3.5] Metaclass levels and prestige spells
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2010, 03:10:59 AM »
I think the Metaclass thing would be a much bigger bookkeeping nightmare than the PrS's. You're changing a ton of things about your character twice per day (class features, skill, feats, ability adjustments, spells, hit dice, hit points, saving throw bonuses, BaB, caster level, and more).

By comparison, once you've "learned" the new PrS, it's pretty tame, just like any other spell in your spell book. Until then, all you have to keep track is how many more days of reserving a certain number of spell slots until you get the upgrade.
A Guide to Free D&D - A resource of free, official D&D resources on the web.
General listing of my homebrew.
Links to things I've worked on
[spoiler]
Idiot Crusader, refreshing maneuvers for free every round.
The Opposed Checks Handbook - Under construction.
Adaptations Handbook - Under construction.
[/spoiler]

Amechra

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2328
  • Thread Necromancy a Specialty
Re: [3.5] Metaclass levels and prestige spells
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2010, 03:36:27 AM »
Right... forgot about the level adjustment (I'm tired, so sue me). It will have tons of bookkeeping, and that's why a photocopier is your friend. After a session or two, you'll figure out how to properly use a Barbarian 3/Barbarian(Quickened) 4/Barbarian 3; however, you could probably use just use level drain for a multiclassed character, unless you have a better idea. Otherwise, your Rogue(Maximised) 4/Cleric 1/Cleric(Still) 1/Rogue 4 could get to be hassle. Of course, you could probably create a computer program to help you, or make it so it would lose levels in the order that you got them.

Please, I need help streamlining this. So much is salvageable. Probably.
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

Garryl

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1240
Re: [3.5] Metaclass levels and prestige spells
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2010, 02:31:59 PM »
It would be simpler if the metaclass effects applied to individual class features, rather than to entire levels as a whole. It would be a lot more like simple ACFs, but it would be a lot simpler.

To take the Echoing Barbarian example, a Barbarian 20 with the Echoing Rage metaclass feature would rage 3/day as a 20th level Barbarian (three less than the normal 6/day due to the metemagic's +3 slot adjustment). After the first use of one of those rages, he'd have 2 rages left at 20th level, and would gain another rage with the qualities of a 16th level Barbarian (without Mighty Rage/Tireless Rage). Each successive use of a rage would lower the effective Barbarian level of the returned rage by another 4.

Perhaps another option would be a Warlock with the Energy Substitution (Electricity) and Born of Three Thunders metaclass feature applies to his Eldritch Blast. He could deal 1/2 electricity damage and 1/2 sonic damage with the blast, with a chance of stunning and knocking prone, but at the cost of dazing himself for a round.
A Guide to Free D&D - A resource of free, official D&D resources on the web.
General listing of my homebrew.
Links to things I've worked on
[spoiler]
Idiot Crusader, refreshing maneuvers for free every round.
The Opposed Checks Handbook - Under construction.
Adaptations Handbook - Under construction.
[/spoiler]

Amechra

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2328
  • Thread Necromancy a Specialty
Re: [3.5] Metaclass levels and prestige spells
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2010, 05:37:00 PM »
Great idea! Any ideas, beyond adapting metamagics, for the metaclass levels? I only picked echoing to demonstrate the concept. And does anyone have ideas for Spell Prestiges? It would be a good idea to add prereqs for the spell alterations, otherwise you would just have an unholy mess of arcane power on your hands.
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

Amechra

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2328
  • Thread Necromancy a Specialty
Re: [3.5] Metaclass levels and prestige spells
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2010, 03:14:13 AM »
Okay, sorry for double-posting and minor necromancy <Didn't even need to use my absolutely obscene Rebuke bonus>

Here's an idea:

Metaclass level
Name: -of the Summer Ash
Feature Level Down: 0
Prereqs: Any non-spellcaster
Effect: 1, 6, 11, and 16 levels in this add 1d6 fire damage to your class abilities (A Rogue of the Summer Ash 1 would add 1d6 fire damage to his backstab, another 1d6 on sixth level, and so forth)
Also, the PC taking this has Fire Resistance equal to their -of the Summer Ash level applications
Drawback: -2 on every hit dice

Example: (Assumes a +5 to constitution)
Barbarian 20
Hit Points:230
On a rage gains +8 to strength and constitution, a +4 to Will saves, and a -2 to AC

Barbarian of the Summer Ash 20
Hit Points: 190
On a rage, also gains 4d6 fire damage added to every attack
Also has Fire Resistance 20 at all times.

Any other ideas?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2010, 03:18:24 AM by Amechra »
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing