Author Topic: Is there a playable core-only melee character?  (Read 21884 times)

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McPoyo

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #60 on: April 12, 2010, 09:43:58 PM »
I would start as an Ogre/Centaur/Minotaur, dip into Bard, then round off with Dragon Disciple. You could even squeeze in a level of barbarian/HW in there. You basically just have a boatload of hp and ridiculous Str (start with 18, Ogre +10, half dragon +8, etc)

I can't help but think that this is the basic mindset to many of the 'psionic/inarnum/ToB is overpowered' crowd is that altering the basic archetypes (1 blaster, 1 meat-shield, 1 skill monkey, 1 healer per party) of D&D is always wrong.

Wait... when has anyone ever said that incarnum is overpowered ???
Confusing?  A lot of people (myself included).  Overpowered?  Those people that didn't actually read the book.
A good friend of mine, and the rest of his gaming group, swore it was overpowered because "You basically get free magic items from level one, and you can change them whenever you want!"

Kid. You. Not.

Still haven't been able to convince them otherwise, because they claim it's a virtue of my mechanics mastery more than core.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
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Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
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[/spoiler]

Solo

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #61 on: April 12, 2010, 10:05:10 PM »
A good friend of mine, and the rest of his gaming group, swore it was overpowered because "You basically get free magic items from level one, and you can change them whenever you want!"

Kid. You. Not.

Still haven't been able to convince them otherwise, because they claim it's a virtue of my mechanics mastery more than core.
You're good enough to have a mechanical mastery over core and build characters much more powerful than theirs, but not good enough to know what is balanced and what isn't. Funny thing, cognitive dissonance...
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 10:18:26 PM by Solo »

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Havok4

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #62 on: April 12, 2010, 10:09:05 PM »
A good friend of mine, and the rest of his gaming group, swore it was overpowered because "You basically get free magic items from level one, and you can change them whenever you want!"

Kid. You. Not.
Well there goes a little more of my faith in humanity.

genuine

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #63 on: April 12, 2010, 10:15:30 PM »
A good friend of mine, and the rest of his gaming group, swore it was overpowered because "You basically get free magic items from level one, and you can change them whenever you want!"

Kid. You. Not.

Still haven't been able to convince them otherwise, because they claim it's a virtue of my mechanics mastery more than core.
You're good enough to have a mechanical mastery over core and build characters much more powerful than theirs, but not good enough to know what is balanced and what isn't. Funny thing, cognitive dissonance...

My original point. Non-core is overpowered because they've added to the game. You're Druid is overpowered because you've uncovered some sort of trick. It irritates me.

Back to the original bit, I agree that Dragon Disciple can be a very fun PrC for a melee class. That 'spontaneous spellcasting' thing was always confusing, but a dip into bard works nicely. An often overlooked entry method that's core is a level of Assassin.

Rogue 3/ Ranger 2/ Assassin 1/ Dragon Disciple 10 - 3d6 sneak attack, two-weapon fighting, lots of strength. It's an odd one, but it can work.

[edit]Also, isn't there a Core/SRD guide or compendium around here somewhere? I did a quick scan through the handbook section and didn't see it.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 10:18:42 PM by genuine »

Kuroimaken

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #64 on: April 12, 2010, 10:33:01 PM »
A good friend of mine, and the rest of his gaming group, swore it was overpowered because "You basically get free magic items from level one, and you can change them whenever you want!"

Kid. You. Not.

Still haven't been able to convince them otherwise, because they claim it's a virtue of my mechanics mastery more than core.
You're good enough to have a mechanical mastery over core and build characters much more powerful than theirs, but not good enough to know what is balanced and what isn't. Funny thing, cognitive dissonance...

My original point. Non-core is overpowered because they've added to the game. You're Druid is overpowered because you've uncovered some sort of trick. It irritates me.

Back to the original bit, I agree that Dragon Disciple can be a very fun PrC for a melee class. That 'spontaneous spellcasting' thing was always confusing, but a dip into bard works nicely. An often overlooked entry method that's core is a level of Assassin.

Rogue 3/ Ranger 2/ Assassin 1/ Dragon Disciple 10 - 3d6 sneak attack, two-weapon fighting, lots of strength. It's an odd one, but it can work.

[edit]Also, isn't there a Core/SRD guide or compendium around here somewhere? I did a quick scan through the handbook section and didn't see it.

I feel somehow relieved to know I'm not alone in my pain.
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[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
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Get yours.[/SPOILER]

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Solo

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #65 on: April 12, 2010, 10:34:51 PM »
[edit]Also, isn't there a Core/SRD guide or compendium around here somewhere? I did a quick scan through the handbook section and didn't see it.
An decent section of my guide deals with core only sorcery, and I did float the idea for a core only build compilation (mainly so that Giacomo's joke monk would look bad by comparison). If you want to make one, I'd be happy to help and contribute a few builds.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Bauglir

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #66 on: April 12, 2010, 10:36:21 PM »
Hey, to be fair, Non-Core does unbalance the game a little bit. I mean, look at all the new spells the Cleric can cast!
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

ninjarabbit

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #67 on: April 13, 2010, 12:11:01 AM »

altpersona

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #68 on: April 13, 2010, 12:20:46 AM »
o ya...


i know alter self is limited to type, but does that include subtype? can a wererat mage alter self into another shapechanger subtype? or only into a humanoid/giant [depending].

if its the more liberal version, then at 6 hit dice, you turn into a barghest....
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #69 on: April 13, 2010, 12:26:19 AM »
o ya...


i know alter self is limited to type, but does that include subtype? can a wererat mage alter self into another shapechanger subtype? or only into a humanoid/giant [depending].

if its the more liberal version, then at 6 hit dice, you turn into a barghest....

It's type, not subtype. And it is limited to 5 hit dice. :P
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Kuroimaken

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #70 on: April 13, 2010, 12:38:04 AM »
o ya...


i know alter self is limited to type, but does that include subtype? can a wererat mage alter self into another shapechanger subtype? or only into a humanoid/giant [depending].

if its the more liberal version, then at 6 hit dice, you turn into a barghest....

It's type, not subtype. And it is limited to 5 hit dice. :P

I was going to yell "Reserves of Strength" at the top of my lungs before I remembered the words "Core only".

That reminds me. If any of you has ever seen Mongoose Publishing's Book of Ultimate Feats... then you know what broken means. If you didn't, you're a virgin.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


PhaedrusXY

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #71 on: April 13, 2010, 12:42:49 AM »
The dire bat jumps out at me since it has natural flight, blindsense, and +5 natural armor
No kidding. It also has the best stat mods. I wonder if some DMs wouldn't argue that it isn't a carnivore, though (a prereq for lycanthropes).
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Solo

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #72 on: April 13, 2010, 12:47:17 AM »
No kidding. It also has the best stat mods. I wonder if some DMs wouldn't argue that it isn't a carnivore, though (a prereq for lycanthropes).
Then they fail biology forever.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #73 on: April 13, 2010, 12:50:50 AM »
No kidding. It also has the best stat mods. I wonder if some DMs wouldn't argue that it isn't a carnivore, though (a prereq for lycanthropes).
Then they fail biology forever.
Fruit bats?
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Kuroimaken

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #74 on: April 13, 2010, 12:53:46 AM »
No kidding. It also has the best stat mods. I wonder if some DMs wouldn't argue that it isn't a carnivore, though (a prereq for lycanthropes).
Then they fail biology forever.
Actually, the vast majority of bats are either insectivores or hematophages. Being an insectivore is different from being a carnivore as the protein structure of a bug is significantly easier to digest than actual meat - feeding a bat dead cow would probably kill it in a matter of hours or days.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


Tonymitsu

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #75 on: April 13, 2010, 12:55:41 AM »
No kidding. It also has the best stat mods. I wonder if some DMs wouldn't argue that it isn't a carnivore, though (a prereq for lycanthropes).
Then they fail biology forever.

70% of bats feed on insects.
The majority of the remaining 30% feed on fruit.

A tiny fraction of that 30% feed on other small animals such as lizards, birds, frogs, and sometimes other bats.

Not exactly Bio 101, so I'd say there's plenty of room to argue whether the bat in the MM represents a carnivorous bat.

Negative Zero

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #76 on: April 13, 2010, 12:56:18 AM »
I don't think anything dire is allowed to be herbivorous, much less an insectivore. Even the Dire Maggot eats people.

bearsarebrown

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #77 on: April 13, 2010, 12:56:48 AM »
It's also a fucking DIRE bat.

ninjarabbit

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #78 on: April 13, 2010, 12:57:16 AM »
No kidding. It also has the best stat mods. I wonder if some DMs wouldn't argue that it isn't a carnivore, though (a prereq for lycanthropes).
Then they fail biology forever.
Actually, the vast majority of bats are either insectivores or hematophages. Being an insectivore is different from being a carnivore as the protein structure of a bug is significantly easier to digest than actual meat - feeding a bat dead cow would probably kill it in a matter of hours or days.


It's a freaking larged sized bat, bugs aren't going to be enough to keep it full.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #79 on: April 13, 2010, 12:59:33 AM »
Actually, the vast majority of bats are either insectivores or hematophages.
I'd consider both the bolded to be specialized forms of carnivores.

It's a freaking larged sized bat, bugs aren't going to be enough to keep it full.
What if it eats dire bugs?  ;)
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]