Author Topic: Is there a playable core-only melee character?  (Read 21963 times)

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Saxony

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #120 on: April 13, 2010, 09:59:23 PM »
...Ninja Pirates.....

*gasp*

....No. Nooooo! Heresy! My foundation of belief has been shattered!
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ShriekingDrake

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #121 on: April 13, 2010, 10:13:47 PM »
I don't know if a druid would be the best idea. Does core-only mean no wilding clasps?

If yes, cleric or wizard would be better.

Nah!  You could essentially take an itemless druid and you'd still own.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #122 on: April 13, 2010, 10:18:51 PM »
Halfling druid 20 wildshaped into a dire ape riding a t-rex (find a way to add wings and/or fins) and THF-wielding a lance.

Maybe you can fight over the last hot dog.

Take Spirited Charge and Ride-By Attack for more fun.
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Anklebite

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #123 on: April 13, 2010, 10:20:08 PM »
Halfling druid 20 wildshaped into a dire ape riding a t-rex (find a way to add wings and/or fins) and THF-wielding a lance.

Take Spirited Charge and Ride-By Attack for more fun.
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #124 on: April 13, 2010, 10:21:48 PM »
Halfling druid 20 wildshaped into a dire ape riding a t-rex (find a way to add wings and/or fins) and THF-wielding a lance.

Take Spirited Charge and Ride-By Attack for more fun.
you just broke my brain.  my broken is now brained!
Reread it.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Brainpiercing

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #125 on: April 14, 2010, 06:24:29 AM »
For 7th level....

Druid 7, duh....

Spellfocus Conj.(1), Augment Summoning(h), Natural Bond(3) (IF you can deduct the level reduction for higher ACs first, and then add natural bond), Natural Spell(6)
IF you have feats to spare: Multiattack, Power Attack, Mounted Combat

So far the obvious.

Or, for something different: stupid of me. CORE  :banghead :banghead :banghead
[spoiler]
Aberrant Blood(1), Deformity(Tall)(h)(IF you can get it to transfer to Wildshape, since it's a feat)(h), Natural Bond(3), Natural Spell(6), Aberration Wildshape(9)(now this sucks, because you need the class feature for both, duh)

If you have feats to spare: Combat Reflexes, Multiattack, Power Attack,[/spoiler]

Oh, right, if you really want to to take "Melee" seriously, then DON'T take Natural Spell, and shoot yourself in the foot. Just cast Enhance Wildshape before you shape :P.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2010, 06:30:33 AM by Brainpiercing »

McPoyo

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #126 on: April 14, 2010, 07:09:07 AM »
Quoting isn't working for me right now, but!

Awesome Dr. McNinja reference, Lycan.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
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carnivore

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #127 on: April 14, 2010, 08:31:00 AM »
40 damage at Level 7?  I've guessed he doesn't understand Lances.

(1d8+4(str)+14(PA 7))*3=At least like 60 damage.

If you go Druid, I would advise a Riding Dog companion, they are extremely hardy.
for your example ..... tp PA for 7 you need to have a BAB = 7, unfortunately Druids only have a BAB = 5 @7th lvl .... but even if you used a Full BAB class and did that.... say we use a sample CR 7 creature... or since everyone seems to tell me that the CR is too low when i make a build, CR 9

CR 7 Bulette
94 Hp
AC 22
Jump Attack = +15/+15/+15/+15 doing 17 damage each

when you PA you will reduce the possibility of a Hit by the same number that you PAed for... thus even with an 26 Str you would only have a 35% chance to hit with one Attack. even if you hit it... you will die from its attacks ... for more, just look at most CR 7 encounters .... it gets worse with CR 9 encounters


can someone please show me why a Druid 7 is supposed to be so great at Melee? especially how you can Hit anything when you Full PA in a Core only setting?

im not trolling .... i just think that some things are being blown way out of proportion

 :D



McPoyo

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #128 on: April 14, 2010, 10:31:27 AM »
Against that foe, who is one of the stronger cr7 melee ones, you nail it with a spell, like entangle, then engage it from range or with spellblasting. The strength of a druid is it can choose how to engage.

Or you wildshape into a similarly nasty form if you are determined to take it on in melee.

Also, a bullete only gets that many claw attacks on a successful leaping pounce, not every round.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

carnivore

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #129 on: April 14, 2010, 11:06:54 AM »
the question here is:

Melee Combat .... and everyone says Druid, Druid, Druid ..... and between level 5-7 a Druid is limited to Medium sized Animal Forms ... i dont see a lot of strong forms in Core only(which everyone says is Broken)

but a Fighter can also do the same(Choose how to engage), it also can use the same tactics.. Tanglefoot bag + Ranged combat(Arrows)

a Bulette can leap every round ... it does not need to make a Jump check... "Leap (Ex): A bulette can jump into the air during combat. This allows it to make four claw attacks instead of two, each with a +15 attack bonus, but it cannot bite."

still i have been told on several threads that for a Party the Druid should face a CR 9 opponent, and that a CR 7 is ok for a Solo encounter

i still dont see how a Druid is that great a Tank until it gets at least 8th lvl... even then im not entirely convinced

the OP specified ECL 5-7 ..... how has any of the coments so far helped him?

 :D

Brainpiercing

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #130 on: April 14, 2010, 11:23:27 AM »
The Bulette is a pretty good damage dealer, that much is true, and is probably a fairly strong CR7 monster to melee. (It's quad-claws only do 15 average per hit, though, if you turn them into primaries, or 11 if you keep them as secondaries, as in the monster entry.) (AND it still only has a +6 Will save, which means it will likely as not succumb to a well placed Charm monster :), which just means... lucky sorcs.).

But the kicker is the total package: Your Giant Croc AC grapples (it is at least tied for grapples because you gave it Improved Grapple, hopefully) the bulette while you slowly bludgeon or claw it to death. You can also summon another, of course. Incidentally, Level 7 is a bad breakpoint for melee for a druid, and a lull in Druid power in general: Your best form at level 7 is a Leopard, Deinonychus or a Black bear, none of which are particularly impressive (the dino probably winning by a thin margin). One level more and you would get a TON of strong WS forms, Dire Lions, Dire Ape, etc. The AC of course gets better. Core spells at 4th level are rather lacklustre, with only a few workable staples.


Now, going with the Lance charge theme: Your feats could be:
Mounted Combat(1), Ride by attack(h), and Spirited Charge(3),  Natural Spell or whatever(6).
If you're a Dwarf obviously spirited charge will have to wait until 6. (But a dwarf makes some sense, here, because either your Wis or your Str will suck, otherwise, and you're obviously not going for WS, so you DO need those physical stats.)

You'll ride the fastest AC you can find (Light Warhorse, probably), which might get some decent AC due to barding and levels. You can't power-attack on the charge, so you'll be doing 3x 1d8 +6 +1 enh. or so (36 damage on average), with a generous assumption of 16s in Str, Con and Wis, and a +2 Str item. (A Dorf might do it.)
If you're lucky your mount is fast enough to always stay over 40ft out of reach, which you might manage. The Bulette can't do it's quad claw on a charge, nor is a charge particularly dangerous - it will do damage, obviously, which you may or may not be able to negate using either the "Cover" action of the Ride skill, or the negate hitting action of the Mounted Combat feat. However, each round the bulette charges, you can't charge it back, unless you have a mount speed of 60ft (Light Warhorse). So, you will probably need at least 5-6 rounds to kill the bulette, 3 in the most optimum case.

It could play out like this:
Surprise: Bulette surprises you by attacking from below (hopefully not with Leap). You hopefully negate the hit via cover or mounted combat.
1st: If the Bulette wins init you and your mount are in for a beating. You take cover and negate one hit on the mount. Likely as not your or your mount will take two to three hits, then. If you survive, you run away around 100 ft then stop. Hopefully your mount can tumble :). If Bulette didn't win init it can close 80ft. Let's say it won't burrow.
2nd: Bulette won init: closes 80ft. You won init: You ride-by charge, passing it by 100 feet. You have 50% chance to hit (+12 on a charge), so you do weighted 20 damage.
3rd: Rinse repeat until the bulette is either tired of this crap, or you kill it. If you hit every time, you can do it in 3 rounds, as said above.

Now let me introduce the OTHER character class who can do this, in about the same amount of time: It's called a Paladin, and hopefully he took a LIGHT Warhorse mount. Or the Fighter, but his mount will be a lot more fragile.

I do agree, 7 is a pretty bad place to be for a Druid in Core only.

However, outside of mounted combat, how do the aforementioned builds (Ranger/Fighter, or Ranger/Rogue) fare soloing the Bulette? The only builds I see surviving are those that actually just sneak by, and are never even attacked, because a lot of mundane builds will never survive a quad-claw raping.

Beltendu

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #131 on: April 14, 2010, 11:36:06 AM »

Yeah but riding a T-Rex into town is pure win no manner how you look at it.

Anyone who lets me ride their dinosaur gets to call me Carlos.

Other than that, I got nothin ... :)  Everyone else is covering it better than I could anyway .. :)

genuine

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #132 on: April 14, 2010, 12:31:43 PM »
 :lmao Zombie Dinosaurs are always better.

McPoyo

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #133 on: April 14, 2010, 12:35:34 PM »
:lmao Zombie Dinosaurs are always better.
Those require a one-man polka band, though...
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Havok4

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #134 on: April 14, 2010, 01:40:44 PM »
:lmao Zombie Dinosaurs are always better.
Those require a one-man polka band, though...
Not for any practical purposes in DnD, just for style.

snakeman830

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #135 on: April 14, 2010, 01:45:56 PM »
Cast Animate Dead on a giant corpse and you have your melee.  Fire Giants make skeles immune to two energy types.
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skydragonknight

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #136 on: April 14, 2010, 01:57:15 PM »
Mounted Druid?

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Druid%27s_Animal_Companion

Scroll down. Look at the level 7 options. Note Rhinoceros. ;)
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Anklebite

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #137 on: April 14, 2010, 01:57:50 PM »
Cast Animate Dead on a giant corpse and you have your melee.  Fire Giants make skeles immune to two energy types.
the best meatshield, after all, is one that is in the end expendable. allows many desperate tactics to work at a much lower cost.
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Surreal

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #138 on: April 14, 2010, 02:26:13 PM »
Cast Animate Dead on a giant corpse and you have your melee.  Fire Giants make skeles immune to two energy types.
Because there are totally fire giant corpses lying around all over the place.
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Anklebite

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Re: Is there a playable core-only melee character?
« Reply #139 on: April 14, 2010, 02:29:17 PM »
Cast Animate Dead on a giant corpse and you have your melee.  Fire Giants make skeles immune to two energy types.
Because there are totally fire giant corpses lying around all over the place.

oh, I bet we can  make a few.

if nothing else, stone shape + stone to flesh.
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