Author Topic: Eldritch Disciple  (Read 10227 times)

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Jedda

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Eldritch Disciple
« on: April 08, 2010, 11:27:11 AM »
Going to be starting a short(ish campaign in the next few weeks. So far I think it's going to start at 5th level and may reach 10th. I don't want to go too made on books as DM's newish and I don't want to overwhelm him. I know BoED  and BoVD are out (although I'm going to try to plead for the Elation spell as it's a great buff and fits thematically). I know he hasn't read Dragon Magic yet. No idea what he'll say about setting specific so I'm avoiding that at the moment. SC will be on a spell by spell basis, would like some suggestions of good spells to pick at low(ish) level.

Basically Core and Completes.

This is my first DMM character, I'm aiming for buffing and sniping and probably face.
Stats: Cha=Wis > Dex=Int > Con > Str
Race: Human (had the choice of human or elf)
Alignment: CG

1. Cleric (of Liir) 1 - Divine Magician variant, Domain either Knowledge/Magic/Travel not sure.
Feats: Extend Spell, Persist Spell
-if approved will take Cloistered Cleric variant here
2. Cleric 2
3. Warlock 1 - DMM Persist
4. Warlock 2
5. Cleric 3
 
Then into Eldritch Disciple. I think the campaign'll finish before I run out of ED levels.

Likely feats
6: Knowledge Devotion
9: Obtain Familiar
12: Extra Turning - might be better earlier

If flaws are allowed I'll move DMM Persist, Extra Turning and Knowledge Devotion up. Not sure about other feats (would love Nymph's kiss if it were allowed).

Not sure about invocations. Was thinking the shatter one would be good to start with then Beguiling influence.

Divine Magician: Not quite sure what spells to pick.
1. Shield ??
2. ??

Items: I need to get more turning, so nightstick(s), ankh of ascension and reliquary holy symbol
Then there's that scarf that improves eldritch blast and ...?

Skills:
UMD (unless I take magic domain)
Enough knowledge for knowledge devotion
social skills

Opinions / Suggestions please
« Last Edit: April 08, 2010, 11:30:43 AM by Jedda »

Havok4

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Re: Eldritch Disciple
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2010, 12:33:55 PM »
At that low of a level you are really hurting yourself with a eldrich disciple build as it does not have time to actually gain the eldrich disciple benefits at that level. For a similar feel you could just load up your cleric build with reserve feats for much the same effect while keeping access to high level spells. Also a DMM Persist Cleric can gain nice offensive options all day long, like darkfire.

tinydwarfman

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Re: Eldritch Disciple
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2010, 12:49:33 PM »
Ur-preist is the best choice purely from an optomization point of view, and has great flavor as well, as long as you're down with being evil. Eldritch Glaive is a must once you get your first iteritive, and for other invocations beguiling influence and baleful utterance are pretty snazzy. If your DM is fine with DMM persist and nightsticks that's ok, but a DMMM glaivelock ur-preist is crazy powerful. Beware of low flying DMGs

Jedda

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Re: Eldritch Disciple
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2010, 03:53:06 PM »
IIRC Eldritch Glaive is in Dragon Magic so no go there.

I don't desperately want to play Evil (yes I know there is an adaption for dead gods not sure how that squares with Eldritch Disciple though). Can't easily get into Ur priest before 6th correct? with rebuking at 7th? then Eldritch Disciple at 8th?
That a bit of a wait. If I've worked things correctly.
Cleric Version at Lvl 10: Warlock 7 / Cleric 7 (4th level spells)
Ur Priest Version at Lvl 10: Warlock 8 / Ur Priest 4 (4th level spells)
- Obviously after that the Ur Priest version pulls ahead quickly but at these levels there's not that much in it

I know dual casters are kinda weak in the lower levels but figure I'll be able to boost and support the party all the same. Maybe I'm wrong? I enjoy playing support characters so I wasn't aiming and an all powerful character but simply one that can be useful all day.

Wasn't intending to go too mad with the DMM, I never seen it played. Would DMM Quicken be less scary for a DM?

If An Eldritch Disciple isn't viable at these levels I think I'll try straight warlock.
 

Nihilus

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Re: Eldritch Disciple
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2010, 05:45:10 PM »
Here's a build that I'm taking right now.
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=420.msg34912#msg34912
although i've been running into problems lately,
you can also check my thread for some points of advice given to me, its under the need help from an experienced cleric.
I'm pretty much in the same boat as you with what we know, and I'm not nearly knowledgeable to give advice. So best of luck to you  :)

Rebel7284

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Re: Eldritch Disciple
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2010, 05:45:55 PM »
Any objections to being a cleric of an ideal and picking up planning and undeath domains?  A free extend spell and a free extra turning are goooood.
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carnivore

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Re: Eldritch Disciple
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2010, 05:55:29 PM »
what exactly are you looking for?

i would recomend starting with Cloistered Cleric .... but like this:

Human(Chaotic Good)
Warlock 1/ Cleric(Lirr) 4/

Domains: Knowledge, Magic, Travel
give up the Knowledge Domain access and take the Feat: Knowledge Devotion

Feats and Progression:

Cloistered Cleric 1 ..................... Extend Spell, Persistent Spell(Human bonus), Knowledge Devotion(Domain bonus)
Warlock 1
Cloistered Cleric ........................ DMM(Persistant)
Cloistered Cleric
Cloistered Cleric

  :D

Nihilus

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Re: Eldritch Disciple
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2010, 05:59:43 PM »
carnivore, how would you get the third domain?

Oh and jedda, ED is very viable by level 10, you get access to 4th lvl spells, and DMM persist (which you could get earlier, depending on your domains)
« Last Edit: April 08, 2010, 06:01:48 PM by Nihilus »

carnivore

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Re: Eldritch Disciple
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2010, 06:08:25 PM »
Cloistered Cleric gives Knowledge as a Bonus Domain ... take Magic and Travel as normal for Clerics

 :D

 

Jedda

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Re: Eldritch Disciple
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2010, 07:04:20 AM »
I fully intend to use Cloistered Cleric if DM allows it.

Was thinking the Divine Magician variant might be worth it.
Domain thoughts - travel - freedom of movement power could be very useful,
 - magic - Access to wizard/sorcerer wands, should be able to UMD them but I'm not sure how easy it is to do that reliably.

Being a Cleric of an ideal would be great but Eldritch Disciple specifically says you must worship a chaotic deity.

Warlock 1 / Cleric 4 vs Warlock 2 / Cleric 3
- Is Warlock 1 enough to get into ED? I thought it required least invocationS

Overall concept is a bundle of energy out to experience life and see many pretty things. Probably incessantly cheerful.
-Intending to be a buffer / face / ranged combatant

Nihilus (and Carnivore :) ) that's great build. However as far as I'm aware this is a mini-campaign running maybe 8 sessions or so. Guessing from 5th we won't get past 10th level.

DM has said Elf or Human for races. I can't think of an appropriate Elf for this occasion so I went with Human. Illumians are variant humans so maybe... (I haven't asked about variants).

carnivore

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Re: Eldritch Disciple
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2010, 08:13:19 AM »
you are correct .... you need to have a Patron ... thats why i listed other Patrons in addition to Lirr :

other Patrons that can work with this:

Syret(CG)(Illumian) Chaos,Sun,Travel (Mace)
Haku(CG)(Sandstorm)Air,Chaos,Good,Protec tion,Travel(Scimitat)
Zoser(CN)(Sandstorm)Air,Chaos,Destructio n,Sand,Summer(Spiked Chain)
Bast(CG)(Egyptian)Chaos,Destruction,Prot ection,Strength,War(Spiked Gauntlet)
Nephthys(CG)(Egyptian)Chaos,Good,Protect ion,Repose(Mace)
Nanna-Sin(CG)(Babylonian)Chaos,Luck,Good(Battl e Axe)
Utu(CG)Babylonian)Chaos,Fire,Good,Sun(Sc imitar)
Lirr(CG)(Complete Divine-Core)Chaos,Good,Knowledge,Magic,Travel(R apier)
Tritherion(CG)(Complete Divine-Core)Chaos,Good,Liberation,Summoner(Spea r)
Kord(CG)(Core)Chaos,Good,Luck,Strength(G reat Sword)


Warlock 1 gives a least Invocation ... so it will qualify for Eldritch Disciple


Human is also a great choice for this build

 :D

Surreal

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Re: Eldritch Disciple
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2010, 02:00:21 PM »
Warlock 1 / Cleric 4 vs Warlock 2 / Cleric 3
- Is Warlock 1 enough to get into ED? I thought it required least invocationS

Wow I've never noticed that plural before...  I guess it does need Warlock 2.
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Havok4

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Re: Eldritch Disciple
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2010, 02:23:30 PM »
Warlock 1 / Cleric 4 vs Warlock 2 / Cleric 3
- Is Warlock 1 enough to get into ED? I thought it required least invocationS

Wow I've never noticed that plural before...  I guess it does need Warlock 2.
Although that is debatable depending on how you interpret that plural. It could mean that the character has to be able to use invocations as a spell casting system.

Frost Wolf

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Re: Eldritch Disciple
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2010, 10:00:44 PM »
Where can I find Divine Magician?

Havok4

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Re: Eldritch Disciple
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2010, 10:29:22 PM »
Where can I find Divine Magician?
Complete Mage, in the ACF section.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Eldritch Disciple
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2010, 10:30:28 PM »
Warlock 1 / Cleric 4 vs Warlock 2 / Cleric 3
- Is Warlock 1 enough to get into ED? I thought it required least invocationS

Wow I've never noticed that plural before...  I guess it does need Warlock 2.
Although that is debatable depending on how you interpret that plural. It could mean that the character has to be able to use invocations as a spell casting system.
If they wanted plural, they would have said "at least two least invocations".
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Surreal

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Re: Eldritch Disciple
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2010, 03:03:37 AM »
Warlock 1 / Cleric 4 vs Warlock 2 / Cleric 3
- Is Warlock 1 enough to get into ED? I thought it required least invocationS

Wow I've never noticed that plural before...  I guess it does need Warlock 2.
Although that is debatable depending on how you interpret that plural. It could mean that the character has to be able to use invocations as a spell casting system.
If they wanted plural, they would have said "at least two least invocations".

Meh, it's semantics. I think it's a valid argument either way.
---
"The late, sedate, and no to great." ~Surreal

Some Handy Links for CO Work (WotC 339 version) - a compilation of links for base/prestige class handbooks, tactics, spellcasting, character builds, D&D databases, etc.
Archived version of the above with working links

The Mango Index - a giant index for all things D&D and where to find them
The Mango List Reborn! - rehosted by KellKheraptis

Lists of Stuff - listing of class features etc and how to get them, etc. sort of like above but a little more specific and sorted by category
Polymorph, Wildshape and Shapechange, oh my! (comparison charts) - side-by-side comparison of all the various form altering abilities
Alternative Class Features
alternative ways to get class skills

Havok4

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Re: Eldritch Disciple
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2010, 03:16:17 AM »
Warlock 1 / Cleric 4 vs Warlock 2 / Cleric 3
- Is Warlock 1 enough to get into ED? I thought it required least invocationS

Wow I've never noticed that plural before...  I guess it does need Warlock 2.
Although that is debatable depending on how you interpret that plural. It could mean that the character has to be able to use invocations as a spell casting system.
If they wanted plural, they would have said "at least two least invocations".

Meh, it's semantics. I think it's a valid argument either way.
True, it is a very hard point to argue either way due to the very limited nature of the line.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Eldritch Disciple
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2010, 06:23:29 AM »
Warlock 1 / Cleric 4 vs Warlock 2 / Cleric 3
- Is Warlock 1 enough to get into ED? I thought it required least invocationS

Wow I've never noticed that plural before...  I guess it does need Warlock 2.
Although that is debatable depending on how you interpret that plural. It could mean that the character has to be able to use invocations as a spell casting system.
If they wanted plural, they would have said "at least two least invocations".

Meh, it's semantics. I think it's a valid argument either way.
meh, if you're going to be that anal, might as well lose all casting prc features if you're out of spells for the day
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Surreal

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Re: Eldritch Disciple
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2010, 07:57:57 AM »
Dude, you're going to call me anal because I said a line of text is ambiguous?  :wow
---
"The late, sedate, and no to great." ~Surreal

Some Handy Links for CO Work (WotC 339 version) - a compilation of links for base/prestige class handbooks, tactics, spellcasting, character builds, D&D databases, etc.
Archived version of the above with working links

The Mango Index - a giant index for all things D&D and where to find them
The Mango List Reborn! - rehosted by KellKheraptis

Lists of Stuff - listing of class features etc and how to get them, etc. sort of like above but a little more specific and sorted by category
Polymorph, Wildshape and Shapechange, oh my! (comparison charts) - side-by-side comparison of all the various form altering abilities
Alternative Class Features
alternative ways to get class skills