Author Topic: Gestalt Level 30 - Halp / Build Ideas  (Read 6939 times)

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Takanaki

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Re: Gestalt Level 30 - Halp / Build Ideas
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2010, 08:53:29 PM »
Punpun is about the only thing that is taking is too far in this campaign. LA can't be bought off afaik, but DM might change his mind.

I've read sharn but don't see why theyre so awesome other than the extra action... Veil of Undeath is damn tasty though.

Would a Lumi be immuned to turning into a lich, or immune to positive energy after turning into one ;D?



Sharn cast everything as a spell-like ability. Want Wish without the XP? That's ok, you can. Want to gate in something huge? Yep, you can do that too. Want to cast a spell that has a hideously expensive material component? No worries!

Also, sharns get three standards plus a move.  Well, the actual wording is "three separate actions plus a move action", so if you wanted to abuse an obvious typo you could just "two full round actions, a swift action and a move action".

Hex portals are boss, especially combined with initiate of the sevenfold veil and any other turtling tactics.  You can become completely immune to attack and still be able to hit opponents.  You can wield nine weapons at once, which is probably more useful in terms of the number of +1 (beneficial enchant) weapons you can buy and the number of wands you can put into wand slots than in actual melee damage.  You get evasion just because (I blame the drugs).  


Also, you have regeneration lawful.   How many people deal lawful damage?


Basically, sharns are one of the few high-hit dice/ high-LA races that are worth bothering with, and probably the only one that doesn't have racial spellcasting equal to its ECL.

What would be a good build for Sharn without relying on Paragon? DM is making that cost 30LA on one side, and I think there is better that could be done with 30 levels... even though Paragon is pretty boss. Sorc/Favoured Soul progression kinda makes me sad, when it could be wiz/clr... but I have no experience with them. Certainly there's room for abuse with SLA spells, consider me sold on the race. I did like the idea of an unkillable Lumi, but there's always cohorts for that =p

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Gestalt Level 30 - Halp / Build Ideas
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2010, 09:36:29 PM »
Since epic progressions of sorcerer and favored soul are pretty terrible, you're only going to want to progress spellcasting by fourteen levels each.  That can go down to 12 if you have to, since getting ninths is probably more important than number of slots, given how improved spell capacity works.


  Since you're epic, having them for epic spellcasting is all that's really all that matters

So,even if can fill up the gaps in your racial sharn spellcasting by gestalting three levels of sorcerer and favored soul with your racial HD or LA, it's not strictly needed.  Instead, consider Factotum1/Battle Dancer 1/Warblade1/something1/wildshape variant ranger 5 (yes, you get no use out of wildshape.  It doesn't matter)

After your racial limits are taken care of, you have 42 class levels to distribute, 21 of which can be PrCs.  I'll list by PrC since they're exclusive
One possibility:
7 levels of Iot7V (gestalt with favored soul)
1 Level of Ur-priest (gestalt with favored soul or sorcerer, your choice)  * Technically, since you're using SLAs, you aren't casting divine spells.
5 levels of planar shepherd (yes, you're taking five levels of wildshape ranger just for this.) (advances ur-priest, gestalt with sorcerer or favored soul).

Advancement just from that :
Sorc 12 (got ninths, take epic spellcasting),FS 8,UrPriest 6

And eight levels of prestige classes left, needed to advance 14 levels of various spellcasting.

And I think I just threw up a little from how much cheese I crammed in.  You're tight on feats, but I think you can make it without having to resort to embracing/shunning the dark chaos.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2010, 09:44:26 PM by The_Mad_Linguist »
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Havok4

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Re: Gestalt Level 30 - Halp / Build Ideas
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2010, 10:12:01 PM »
Isn't the Sharn immune to shape changing effects, so he cannot use wildshape.

bearsarebrown

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Re: Gestalt Level 30 - Halp / Build Ideas
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2010, 11:34:59 PM »
Consider Supernatural Transformation on your SLAs. Wish/Miracle are good choices.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Gestalt Level 30 - Halp / Build Ideas
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2010, 11:51:25 PM »
Isn't the Sharn immune to shape changing effects, so he cannot use wildshape.
I noted that.  I also noted "Who cares?", since planar shepherd is just that awesome.
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Chilastra022

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Re: Gestalt Level 30 - Halp / Build Ideas
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2010, 03:38:05 PM »
You (lvl30): Fiend of Possession 6, Thrallherd 1 // whatever you want.

Thrall 1(lvl29): Whatever you want // whatever you want.

Maybe Dvati and thrallherd 10 for 2 thralls and dual-possession. Make ample use of schism/action abuse to take full advantage of both thralls.

Thrall 2(lvl28): Whatever you want // whatever you want? Assuming the gm allows npcs to have gestalt builds as well, if not, you still come out ahead in comparison to a regular gestalt anyway.

-edit: Woops forgot to add, id only do this if you can talk the gm into allowing epic progression of thrallherd by way of perhaps the epic leadership feat to continue progression of leadership scores beyond 24.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 03:42:23 PM by Chilastra022 »

Takanaki

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Re: Gestalt Level 30 - Halp / Build Ideas
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2010, 06:53:19 AM »
Epic Thrallherd is a no go, presumably not to stall gameplay too much with a few thousand npcs.

Chilastra022

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Re: Gestalt Level 30 - Halp / Build Ideas
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2010, 03:52:01 PM »
well the followers are inconsequential, its primarily for the cohort/thrall progression, you wont actually need the 1000s of followers unless your needing them for sacrificial rituals. Likewise, you dont need all your followers following you everywhere you go, you can just keep them in their home towns and have them stay put while your off conquering the world.

Thrallherd cohorts (referred to as Thralls) max out at lvl17, so when your thralls end up dieing (which will happen at some point or another) your next thralls end up coming in as lvl17s and lower. That'd be bad in a lvl30+ campaign, thus youd need epic progression of the Thrallherd's leadership feature, so when your thralls die, your new ones come as lvl25's rather than 17s, (and eventually higher than 25 if youve got high charisma)

Youd only be using 2 thralls, the thousands of followers will just be around for when you decide you need an army to take over a city/empire etc. (or build one yourself) ;)
« Last Edit: April 08, 2010, 04:04:13 PM by Chilastra022 »

Takanaki

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Re: Gestalt Level 30 - Halp / Build Ideas
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2010, 07:13:23 PM »
Each player using several characters/thralls makes a timesink the DM doesn't want to deal with.

Widow

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Re: Gestalt Level 30 - Halp / Build Ideas
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2010, 12:19:24 PM »
Each player using several characters/thralls makes a timesink the DM doesn't want to deal with.

Thrallherd is still useful even with level 17 characters.  First if you dont go with fiend of possession for your main character, make one of your thralls that.  You get to add anywhere from a +6 to a +9 to your weapon properties or give yourself a +7 stat bonus (some profane, some unlisted).  Secondly you can have your cohort craft stuff.  Having a character limit of 17 in this case is hilarous.  They still get xp, just they cannot get enough to turn 18.  So have them craft away until they are at the base of 17 and everytime you get xp, they get 17,000xp to blow.  If nothing else, turn them into wish scroll engines.  Best of all, they can craft continously while you are adventuring.  You just swing by to pick up your goods every so often.  Even better.  In a worse case scenario, they can just cast wish when ever they get xp to make gp for material components if you lack ignore material components.

Personally I never have my thralls act incombat except maybe to change my weapon properties they are granting.

Widow

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Re: Gestalt Level 30 - Halp / Build Ideas
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2010, 02:06:47 PM »

What would be a good build for Sharn without relying on Paragon? DM is making that cost 30LA on one side, and I think there is better that could be done with 30 levels... even though Paragon is pretty boss. Sorc/Favoured Soul progression kinda makes me sad, when it could be wiz/clr... but I have no experience with them. Certainly there's room for abuse with SLA spells, consider me sold on the race. I did like the idea of an unkillable Lumi, but there's always cohorts for that =p

Takanaki

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Re: Gestalt Level 30 - Halp / Build Ideas
« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2010, 12:51:18 PM »
Does sharn give any +stats?

Havok4

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Re: Gestalt Level 30 - Halp / Build Ideas
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2010, 01:03:51 PM »
Does sharn give any +stats?
Yes, +8 str, +10 dex, +10 con, +8 int, +8 wis, +10 cha. It is really the best race ever for anything.

Takanaki

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Re: Gestalt Level 30 - Halp / Build Ideas
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2010, 01:31:51 PM »
Thanks, sucks about the hit dice, but it's a bargain lol.

Start stats are 18/18/18/14/10/10 move around points however you like. Wish abuse is allowed, the setting is the result of wish / time stop abuse so it's a-ok.

Considering getting double charisma to saves, high saves would be useful me thinks.

jojolagger

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Re: Gestalt Level 30 - Halp / Build Ideas
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2010, 01:34:05 PM »
Demi-Lich or Lernean Lumi... could be both. Being unkillable is kind of appealing.
Good.

Use sanctum spell, earth spell, Extra slot, and Improved spell capacity to get a level 17 spell slot. Then innate spell time stop. :devil
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Takanaki

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Re: Gestalt Level 30 - Halp / Build Ideas
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2010, 11:25:43 AM »
Ok so I settled on a character and it has ended up like this o_O
[spoiler]
Warmage 3 + Sorcerer 3 + 1 Wu Jen + 3 Cloistered Cleric + Radiant Servant 10(6) + 1 Contemplative + 3 Dweomerkeeper + 1 Ranger + 1 Marshal (motivating SR checks) + 1 Witchhunter + 1 Battledancer + 1 Monk + 1 Mystic Wonderer

Sharn 9 + Shadow Craft Mage 5 + Incantatrix 4 + Shadow Adept 1 + 7 Initiate of Seven blabla + 3 Dweomerkeeper + 1 Nightmare Spinner[/spoiler]

I got my DM to allow Warmage/Sorcerer Sharn... so it will have cleric list from radiant servant. Various AC boosts come from Mystic Wonderer/Monk/Battledancer. Saves from Witchhunter and im probably forgetting some stuff as I try to keep this briefish.

Cohort is basic, and capped at level 25 to begin with.
[spoiler]Kaori 4 // 8 Bard // 5 Fiend of Pos + 1 Fiend of Cor // 1 Sublime Chord // 1 Ur-Priest // 9 MystTheurge // 1 Marshal (Motivating Intelligence for spellcraft checks)
25 Artificer[/spoiler]

Feats for my main character are something like, after some retraining. Only bought 3 from locations and took the rest from class bonuses or our basic allotment.
[spoiler]Feats:
Incantatrix: 2 Metamagic - Heighten Spell, Empower
Wu Jen: Persist

1 Shadow Weave Magic
2 Extend
4 Earth spell
6 Dragontouched
8 Spell Focus (Illusion)
10 Leadership
12 Extraordinary Spell Aim
14 Arcane Mastery
16 Spell Focus Abjuration
18 G.Spell Focus Abjuration
20 Initiate of Mystra
22 Epic Spellcasting
24 Epic Leadership
26 DMM: Intensifying Spell
28 Residual Magic
30 Improved Spell Cap

Battledancer: Improved Spell Cap
Marshal: Skill Focus to Practiced Spellcaster +1 to Sorc/+3 to WM
Monk: Improved Spell Cap
Shadow Adept: Insidious to Practical Metamagic (-1 Heighten)

Location: Iron Will
Location: Maximize Spell
Location: Skill Focus (Spellcraft)

Domains:
Air, Good, Law
Magic, Destiny, Rune, Knowledge[/spoiler]

Stats come to, before equipment, old age and other template jazz, the +38 cha comes from an epic spell, the limit on boosting stats was x2 base:
[spoiler]Str: 8 / +5 All / 13 / 0 Levels / Race +8  / 21
Dex: 15 / +5 All / 20 / 0 Levels / Race +10 / 30
Con: 11 / +5 All / 16 / 0 Levels / Race +10 / 26
Int: 18 / +5 All / 23 / 1 Levels / Race +8  / 32
Wis: 18 / +5 All / 23 / 1 Levels / Race +8  / 32 (-2 Shadow Weave)
Cha: 18 / +5 All / 23 / 5 Levels / Race +10 / 38 (+38) (76/+33)[/spoiler]

As for anything ontop, template magic blooded, old age, unseelie fey on my sharn but the -cha to saves aura won't be allowed, the extra 2 cha is nice though.

Any thoughts on equipment to be bought/the general build? A rod of excellent spellcasting is high on my list for stupid xp components, everything else is up in the air.

Also ideas on epic spells or even pre-epic would be useful too, so far other than boosting my primary stat the only thing that appealed was some kind of epic level dispel/counterspell but im sure there's better things out there.