Author Topic: High level diplomancer  (Read 7708 times)

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malaspina

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High level diplomancer
« on: April 05, 2010, 11:32:33 PM »
Hi folks!

So I was told we're starting a new campaign sometime soon, think anything from level 13 to 16, with possibility of going epic. And all the other guys have already picked their characters, which are: 1 DMM Cleric, 1 Blackguard or other Evil Paladin, 1 arcane Wizard-like spellcaster. Now when I heard this I said "cool, so we're gonna kill stuff and smash skulls, eh?", but the answer was that we're running an intrigue-rich campaign (duh!) and we'd need a charismatic leader\diplomacy expert. The DM tipped me off about some big war boiling up, and we being sent to infiltrate the higher echelons of the enemy coalition to undermine their efforts and maybe even defeat them by word rather than sword.

So I naturally fired the Search function and looked for Diplomancer builds, but I only seem to find very low level ones like Marshal 1\Warlock 1\Binder 1\Cleric 1, and that's not really gonna do it, not even with +11 LA  :bigeye

So I was wondering, any chance you might have some nice high level Diplomancer ideas?

Anklebite

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Re: High level diplomancer
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2010, 11:35:02 PM »
If I recall correctly, you can auto-diplomize from level 3 or so onwards with the right setup.

however, keep this in mind: diplomancy is not a valid playing tactic; it is godmode. literally.  there is no fun in a game where every single person you meet become fanatical to you in six seconds.  you could defuse the entire war in two rounds; teleport, followed by a diplomacy check.
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malaspina

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Re: High level diplomancer
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2010, 11:40:36 PM »
If I recall correctly, you can auto-diplomize from level 3 or so onwards with the right setup.

however, keep this in mind: diplomancy is not a valid playing tactic; it is godmode. literally.  there is no fun in a game where every single person you meet become fanatical to you in six seconds.  you could defuse the entire war in two rounds; teleport, followed by a diplomacy check.
Ouch. I actually didn't know it could get so broken, and I obviously don't want that. Still, I hope and think there's a way to play a reasonable diplomacy-oriented build without breaking the game. Somebody who is pretty good at convincing people, without automatically making them bow down and worship.

Sohala

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Re: High level diplomancer
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2010, 11:50:28 PM »
You could always bluff instead of diplomacy, convince them they are late for the war and should return from where they came. That way they do not worship you but get close to the same effect.
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Anklebite

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Re: High level diplomancer
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2010, 12:26:43 AM »

 reasonable
diplomacy-oriented build
does not belong in same sentence.

the problem is, that as standing, any even mildly optimized diplomacy build is a game breaker even at around level 10. the mechanic is just too damn strong.  as a previous poster said, bluff might work a hell of a lot better, as would an enchanter. the first offers sense motive the counter, the latter actually allows a save.  a "leader" type build with leadership can be great, as long as you simply use diplomacy as the fluff and not the crunch.
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Surreal

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Re: High level diplomancer
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2010, 01:35:39 AM »
If your DM has any sense, he won't let diplomacy break his game. The essentials of a diplomancer are half-elf bard with the first ACF from Races of Destiny, and a dip into Marshal for the Cha aura. After that, you can be whatever the heck you want to be. Sublime Chord is the perennial favourite for bards, and dragonfire inspiration is pretty nice when boosted properly.

For something different, try this: Bard 1/Marshal 1/Paladin 2*/Outcast Champion 1/Mythic Exemplar (Reikhardt) 10/Outcast Champion +4/whatever 1
- start your life as a diplomancer, later on you play strong support and boost everyone's saves by 9 or more
* harmonious knight ACF, stacks up inspire courage to equivalent of bard 17

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Anklebite

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Re: High level diplomancer
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2010, 01:48:46 AM »
If your DM has any sense, he won't let diplomacy break his game. The essentials of a diplomancer are half-elf bard with the first ACF from Races of Destiny, and a dip into Marshal for the Cha aura. After that, you can be whatever the heck you want to be. Sublime Chord is the perennial favourite for bards, and dragonfire inspiration is pretty nice when boosted properly.

For something different, try this: Bard 1/Marshal 1/Paladin 2*/Outcast Champion 1/Mythic Exemplar (Reikhardt) 10/Outcast Champion +4/whatever 1
- start your life as a diplomancer, later on you play strong support and boost everyone's saves by 9 or more
* harmonious knight ACF, stacks up inspire courage to equivalent of bard 17


sure you aren't missing something in there? something involving a grinning hound?  :looloo
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Surreal

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Re: High level diplomancer
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2010, 01:59:49 AM »
sure you aren't missing something in there? something involving a grinning hound?  :looloo

 ???
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Some Handy Links for CO Work (WotC 339 version) - a compilation of links for base/prestige class handbooks, tactics, spellcasting, character builds, D&D databases, etc.
Archived version of the above with working links

The Mango Index - a giant index for all things D&D and where to find them
The Mango List Reborn! - rehosted by KellKheraptis

Lists of Stuff - listing of class features etc and how to get them, etc. sort of like above but a little more specific and sorted by category
Polymorph, Wildshape and Shapechange, oh my! (comparison charts) - side-by-side comparison of all the various form altering abilities
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Anklebite

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Re: High level diplomancer
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2010, 02:03:39 AM »
sure you aren't missing something in there? something involving a grinning hound?  :looloo

 ???
....  :banghead

it starts with "na" and ends with "berius".
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: High level diplomancer
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2010, 02:12:40 AM »
If you're going to be ridiculous...

be ridiculous
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Anklebite

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Re: High level diplomancer
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2010, 02:25:15 AM »
If you're going to be ridiculous...

be ridiculous
that's not ridiculous enough. try it with gather info, sense motive, knowledge(history) or craft(basketweaving).  iaijutsu focus is hilarious too.
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: High level diplomancer
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2010, 02:27:51 AM »
iaijutsu focus is hilarious too.
Hey, if someone cut a tank in half while I was watching, you'd better believe I'd follow them.  Better to be behind them then in front!
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Surreal

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Re: High level diplomancer
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2010, 03:25:03 AM »
sure you aren't missing something in there? something involving a grinning hound?  :looloo

 ???
....  :banghead

it starts with "na" and ends with "berius".

Ah, y'see I was totally thinking in another direction with a different obscure reference (which is an awesome webcomic that I highly recommend)
---
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Some Handy Links for CO Work (WotC 339 version) - a compilation of links for base/prestige class handbooks, tactics, spellcasting, character builds, D&D databases, etc.
Archived version of the above with working links

The Mango Index - a giant index for all things D&D and where to find them
The Mango List Reborn! - rehosted by KellKheraptis

Lists of Stuff - listing of class features etc and how to get them, etc. sort of like above but a little more specific and sorted by category
Polymorph, Wildshape and Shapechange, oh my! (comparison charts) - side-by-side comparison of all the various form altering abilities
Alternative Class Features
alternative ways to get class skills

Anklebite

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Re: High level diplomancer
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2010, 03:32:49 AM »
sure you aren't missing something in there? something involving a grinning hound?  :looloo

 ???
....  :banghead

it starts with "na" and ends with "berius".

Ah, y'see I was totally thinking in another direction with a different obscure reference (which is an awesome webcomic that I highly recommend)
the thing is, it just isn't a diplomancy build without "always take 10" and "do it as full round action with no penalty".
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Bloody Initiate

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Re: High level diplomancer
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2010, 03:57:21 AM »
I was working on a Glaivelock who would take a few levels early on to get Diplomacy going. As everyone has said and you discovered with your search, the "Diplomacy build" isn't really a build at all as much as it's "take three levels here" kinda like Dungeon Crasher can be achieved with a few quick dips.

Mine was Changeling Rogue 1/Marshal 1/Binder or Incarnate/Warlock
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malaspina

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Re: High level diplomancer
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2010, 09:39:24 AM »
Thank you all guys =)

Agita

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Re: High level diplomancer
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2010, 09:51:24 AM »
sure you aren't missing something in there? something involving a grinning hound?  :looloo

 ???
....  :banghead

it starts with "na" and ends with "berius".

Ah, y'see I was totally thinking in another direction with a different obscure reference (which is an awesome webcomic that I highly recommend)
the thing is, it just isn't a diplomancy build without "always take 10" and "do it as full round action with no penalty".
Standard action, actually.
(Also, I second the Gunnerkrigg recommendation.)

How the Arseplomancer hasn't been mentioned yet is beyond me.
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CustosTheFluffy

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Re: High level diplomancer
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2010, 10:20:07 AM »
I always liked the build of the Factotum Diplomancer. Or the Jumplomancer. Now that is style.

Sohala

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Re: High level diplomancer
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2010, 11:52:32 AM »
How the Arseplomancer hasn't been mentioned yet is beyond me.
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