Author Topic: Crusader Tank Build (3.5)  (Read 32339 times)

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jtpirate1018

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Crusader Tank Build (3.5)
« on: March 29, 2010, 11:43:53 PM »
Hey all,

   OK, so I am helping a new player to our normal D&D game get up and going.  He was a Tank in WoW and wants to play something similiar in our D&D game.  I have the ToB and have perused it, but haven't played any of the classes in there.  However, from my reading and a bit of research, it seems like Crusader is right up his alley. 
   What I need help with is a build.  It is a game full of min/maxers, including myself.  So far, we have two Tier 1 classes and one Tier 2 class.  Without cheese that will make the DM smite me, what is the best build for a Tank Crusader... lots of battlefield control and some damage?  Is there an iconic build?

All WotC books are available
We are starting at first level and probably progressing at least through level 16 or 17.
Flaws are allowed, but limited to two.
Races are open, but restricted to no more than LA +2.  Buyback is available. It is an urban campaign and the DM warned us that odd/wierd races will have difficulties.
Dragon source material can be suggested, but DM will approve on a case by case basis.

Thank you in advance for the help. :)

snakeman830

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Re: Crusader Tank Build (3.5)
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2010, 11:49:26 PM »
Whatever you do, have 2 levels of something else (Incarnate or Fighter are always good) as early as possible (possibly even having those first).  Since you say the player is new, I suggest Fighter (Incarnum isn't a good system to start with).  This fixes the Crusader's stance progression so he can learn new stances at the same level they become available (I'm looking at you, Devoted Spirit)
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

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Archao

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Re: Crusader Tank Build (3.5)
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2010, 12:04:05 AM »
I'd suggest something else in addition to Crusader. If you* take your second level of Crusader after you get six levels in another class(es) you can grab the Thicket of Blades stance (if you're going to a lockdown build, this could work if you use a reach weapon and a gauntlet)

Exactly what classes are the other members of the group?

Of course, by "you" I mean the person this character is for.*

gorfnad

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Re: Crusader Tank Build (3.5)
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2010, 01:11:14 AM »
Well from Tome of Battle for Dummies (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871270/Tome_of_Battle_for_Dummies) there are these two builds:
Quote

jtpirate1018

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Re: Crusader Tank Build (3.5)
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2010, 01:35:13 AM »
Quote
Exactly what classes are the other members of the group?

We have a druid, a wizard, and another waffling between factotum/bard/beguiler.

Endarire

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Re: Crusader Tank Build (3.5)
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2010, 04:03:37 AM »
Hood - If you kill everything before it can hurt you, can you honestly call yourself a tank?
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

VladtheLad

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Re: Crusader Tank Build (3.5)
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2010, 08:47:52 AM »
With 1-2 levels of fighter, 1 level of unarmed swordsage and maybe flaws ( I personally don't like them) you could go into the Master of the Nine prestige class, which is very useful for a crusader. I actually have an average build if you are interested.

GawainBS

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Re: Crusader Tank Build (3.5)
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2010, 10:22:38 AM »
Hood - If you kill everything before it can hurt you, can you honestly call yourself a tank?

 :banghead Come on, plug ghost progression, anyone?

Rebel7284

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Re: Crusader Tank Build (3.5)
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2010, 11:01:50 AM »
I like Goliaths with the knockback feat and mountain rage.  Lion+Wolf totem barbarian 2/Crusader 18

Pounce, improved trip without needing the prerequisites, rage for large size which increases your reach.  

Edit:

Also if the game does last to higher levels, picking up the Mineral Warrior template is SO worth it.  DR makes you a much better tank. :D
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 12:38:44 PM by Rebel7284 »
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Crusader Tank Build (3.5)
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2010, 12:43:17 PM »
With 1-2 levels of fighter, 1 level of unarmed swordsage and maybe flaws ( I personally don't like them) you could go into the Master of the Nine prestige class, which is very useful for a crusader. I actually have an average build if you are interested.
Here is a Mo9 build that I came up with, but wound up not using. The game was only going till 12th level, so I didn't plan past that. I thought it looked like crazy-good fun, but the group didn't have a divine caster, and that's probably more powerful overall in the end... so I went with more cleric and dropped Mo9...

(Cloistered) Cleric 1/Crusader 4/Warblade 1/Cobra-strike Monk 1/Mo9 5

Cleric Domains: Time and Darkness (free Blind Fight and Improved Initiative)
Feats: IUS & Dodge (monk), Adapative Style, Stone Power, Combat Reflexes, Stand Still

This build has LOTS of known and granted manuevers at levels 8-12, several stances, and ends up with IL 10 for Crusader and 9 for Warblade at 12th, and all the other goodies of the Mo9 like Dual Stance. It also gets most of the prereq feats for Mo9 for free.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 12:45:10 PM by PhaedrusXY »
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Brainpiercing

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Re: Crusader Tank Build (3.5)
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2010, 12:52:17 PM »
I like Goliaths with the knockback feat and mountain rage.  Lion+Wolf totem barbarian 2/Crusader 18

Pounce, improved trip without needing the prerequisites, rage for large size which increases your reach.  
Let's build on that some:

1)Goliath Crusader 1 (Power Att., Improved Bullrush, Knockback), use a Guisarme or a Glaive

2+3) Totemist2 (and Shape Soulmeld: Therapeutic Mantle at 3)

This allows your Martial Spirit stance to heal +4 per hit, or +5 if your DM aknowledges Martial Spirit as a first level effect)
You should bind the Landshark boots soulmeld to your totem chakra, this will allow you do make four claw attacks as a standard action with a DC20 jump check. As a Goliath you can make high jumps as long jumps, i.e. won't need a running start. So each round you can either hit people with reach and knock them back, or hit people four times without reach and heal yourself for 20 points of damage.


Buy back your LA

4) Fighter1(Combat Reflexes)
5+6) Lion+Wolf Totem Barb 2(Pounce + Improved Trip), Stand Still (6)
7) Fighter +1(Shock Trooper) we have to wiggle this like this because you don't have 6BAB at 6.)
8) Crusader +1(take Thicket of Blades)
9) Crusader +..  (Bonus Essentia or Extra Rage)

etc.

Naturally Goliath becomes obsolete if ultra-cheesy templates such as Half-Minotaur are available.

By level 8 you have the ability to completely control the battlefield within your reach. It would be nice if Extra Rage were available without competing with other, valuable feats. Take Bonus Essentia if you find you are using the healing from your claw-jumps a lot, because with every additional point invested you increase the healing per attack by 2, to a max of +8 (or 9) (10 or 11 total) per attack from Martial Spirit. However, your essentia progression is... stunted, I guess. You may also feel that the two levels of Totemist may be wasted after a while. Well, it's a valid concern, but of course you can do more with them than just bind the Landshark boots. you could bind the Lamia belt and gain two claw attacks that you could use in conjunction with a full-attack (because they don't use your hands), or as non-reach weapons in case someone still gets close to you. Or you could bind the Dread Carapace to gain a Frightful Presence upon a charge, unfortunately the effect only lasts for one round, BUT it doesn't have a non-stacking clause, so your party mage can follow up with a fear effect to get everyone frightened - or worse - for the full duration of THAT effect.

It would be nice to be able to gain additional swift actions, so that you could switch stances on the fly, and also move essentia around better, but.... well, you can't have everything. (barring, perhaps, by using an adapted Ur-Priest/RKV setup). Something like the above, then adding Ur-Priest2/RKV7; OR try for the Mo9, with some Warblade, because with Dual Stance you can use basically all your swift actions for shifting essentia.

Also, if you believe the campaign will stop before reaching level 20, or you think that 9th level maneuvers won't be much of a focus for you, then you can dip more. It would be nice to be able to get Mage Slayer in the build, perhaps, so you need more bonus feats...


If you dare venture into other territory, using a bit more Totemist makes totally viable (that, um... is a bit of an understatement) melee characters, who have mad skill boosts in certain areas, huge, but not ridiculous, damage, and who gain reasonable, if not great, tanking potential just with the addition of the odd level of Crusader, due to the combination of self-healing per attack, and many attacks.

Fluffles

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Re: Crusader Tank Build (3.5)
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2010, 10:52:46 PM »
Actually, a Half-Minotaur Goliath has a +16 to str for +2 LA. And powerful build to count as Huge.

Hijax

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Re: Crusader Tank Build (3.5)
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2010, 05:41:28 AM »
you need to bind girallon arms to your totem, and be a half-minotaur goliath. wield your weapons with all four arms, and add 2.5*str mod to damage.
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