Hide in Plain Sight

[PhaedrusXY]

actively trying to make a Spot check or Listen check requires a move action.

Where, other than in this feat, is that stated though? The only thing that I see that requires a Move action to Spot and/or Listen is if you've already failed your "free" check. It seems to me that you always automatically get a chance to Spot things normally, without using any action.

Action

Varies. Every time you have a chance to spot something in a reactive manner you can make a Spot check without using an action.

This feat makes it sound like you don't, but I don't see where the feat is getting that from (other than the thing about having already failed a check).

If there is no other example in the rules, outside of this feat, for what "actively trying to make a Spot check" is, then there is no such thing as "actively trying to make a Spot check". They just made up the term for this feat, and it is essentially meaningless. Or you could view it as stealth errata. Either way, I don't like it, and my conclusion is that this feat only lets you reroll your Spot/Listen checks that you've failed as a free action instead of a move action, and that's all it does. And they should have just said that.


I would apologize for derailing the thread but... I started it. So I guess I can take it anywhere I want.

[Redeemer of Ogar]

I would apologize for derailing the thread but... I started it. So I guess I can take it anywhere I want.

I'm standing right here. I can still hear you...

-OP
 

[PhaedrusXY]

I would apologize for derailing the thread but... I started it. So I guess I can take it anywhere I want.

I'm standing right here. I can still hear you...

-OP
 

Oh crap... sorry... I swear I thought I started this thing... 

[Redeemer of Ogar]

*grins and laughs evilly*
 

[Negative Zero]

I would apologize for derailing the thread but... I started it. So I guess I can take it anywhere I want.

I'm standing right here. I can still hear you...

-OP
 

This thread would be nothing without me! NOTHING!

[Brainpiercing]

here is the feat for consideration:

Quick Reconnoiter
Type: General
Source: Complete Adventurer
...

there are many situations where a spot check is(or should be) used .... Spot is similar to a Wide Area cursory Search ... when you enter a room you might be asked to make a Spot Check to notice some useful detail, or see an item laying out... but to do a Thorough examination of a Room would require a Search Check for every 5x5 square. Spot is used for other things as well ..... in CO it seems to be mainly associated with finding Hiding or Invisible Characters .... but it does have many other uses.


 

Hmm... I guess it's up to the DM, then. If a DM thinks it's reasonable to be able to make one attack per round ignoring armour then that's fine, I guess. It only implies that it should be a move-action spot check which is replaced, it doesn't really say it.

[Solo]

Sorry to gravedig, but I have to ask: In an area of shadows, can you HiPS if your enemies have Darkvision? In an area of magical darkness, can you HiPS when your enemies have True Seeing?

I personally think yes in both cases because all HiPS needs are shadows and etc, but thought I'd ask just to be sure.

[NiteCyper]

Sorry to gravedig, but I have to ask: In an area of shadows, can you HiPS if your enemies have Darkvision? In an area of magical darkness, can you HiPS when your enemies have True Seeing?

I personally think yes in both cases because all HiPS needs are shadows and etc, but thought I'd ask just to be sure.

1. Depends on the type of "HiPS" you use: the "Dark" template's extraordinary version, in an area of shadows, can't let you HiPS if your enemies have Darkvision, because the shadows provide concealment to hide in which is negated by Darkvision. This, however, is not the case if it is magical darkness whose concealment applies nonetheless.
2. "[True Seeing] does not negate concealment..."

[Solo]

The HiPS of the Shadowdancer is what I'm thinking.

[NiteCyper]

The HiPS of the Shadowdancer is what I'm thinking.

Mechanically, yes. Flavourfully, no.

[BrainCandy]

Sorry to gravedig, but I have to ask: In an area of shadows, can you HiPS if your enemies have Darkvision? In an area of magical darkness, can you HiPS when your enemies have True Seeing?

I personally think yes in both cases because all HiPS needs are shadows and etc, but thought I'd ask just to be sure.

1. Depends on the type of "HiPS" you use: the "Dark" template's extraordinary version, in an area of shadows, can't let you HiPS if your enemies have Darkvision, because the shadows provide concealment to hide in which is negated by Darkvision. This, however, is not the case if it is magical darkness whose concealment applies nonetheless.
2. "[True Seeing] does not negate concealment..."

 I somewhat disagree about the "Dark Creature" HiPS. The way I read it, it's not that shadows allow you to HiPS...it is that direct sunlight disallows you to HiPS. Therefore, a Dark creature could HiPS against a creature with darkvision provided the no sunlight part is met and he also has a way to get some concealment from the viewing creature without relying just being in shadowy light, something like the Blur spell for example.

[NiteCyper]

Sorry to gravedig, but I have to ask: In an area of shadows, can you HiPS if your enemies have Darkvision? In an area of magical darkness, can you HiPS when your enemies have True Seeing?

I personally think yes in both cases because all HiPS needs are shadows and etc, but thought I'd ask just to be sure.

1. Depends on the type of "HiPS" you use: the "Dark" template's extraordinary version, in an area of shadows, can't let you HiPS if your enemies have Darkvision, because the shadows provide concealment to hide in which is negated by Darkvision. This, however, is not the case if it is magical darkness whose concealment applies nonetheless.
2. "[True Seeing] does not negate concealment..."

 I somewhat disagree about the "Dark Creature" HiPS. The way I read it, it's not that shadows allow you to HiPS...it is that direct sunlight disallows you to HiPS. Therefore, a Dark creature could HiPS against a creature with darkvision provided the no sunlight part is met and he also has a way to get some concealment from the viewing creature without relying just being in shadowy light, something like the Blur spell for example.

I bow/defer/yield/concede/submit/admit/affirm/agree/avow/swan/aver/asseverate.

[Anklebite]

Sorry to gravedig, but I have to ask: In an area of shadows, can you HiPS if your enemies have Darkvision? In an area of magical darkness, can you HiPS when your enemies have True Seeing?

I personally think yes in both cases because all HiPS needs are shadows and etc, but thought I'd ask just to be sure.

1. Depends on the type of "HiPS" you use: the "Dark" template's extraordinary version, in an area of shadows, can't let you HiPS if your enemies have Darkvision, because the shadows provide concealment to hide in which is negated by Darkvision. This, however, is not the case if it is magical darkness whose concealment applies nonetheless.
2. "[True Seeing] does not negate concealment..."

 I somewhat disagree about the "Dark Creature" HiPS. The way I read it, it's not that shadows allow you to HiPS...it is that direct sunlight disallows you to HiPS. Therefore, a Dark creature could HiPS against a creature with darkvision provided the no sunlight part is met and he also has a way to get some concealment from the viewing creature without relying just being in shadowy light, something like the Blur spell for example.

I bow/defer/yield/concede/submit/admit/affirm/agree/avow/swan/aver/asseverate.

did you just vomit a thesaurus?

[Solo]

Next, NiteCyper will write a book about a boy and his dragon...

[kalaskaagathas]

For the benefit of a Mr. Kite perhaps?

[SorO_Lost]

Sorry to gravedig, but I have to ask: In an area of shadows, can you HiPS if your enemies have Darkvision? In an area of magical darkness, can you HiPS when your enemies have True Seeing?

I personally think yes in both cases because all HiPS needs are shadows and etc, but thought I'd ask just to be sure.

1. Depends on the type of "HiPS" you use: the "Dark" template's extraordinary version, in an area of shadows, can't let you HiPS if your enemies have Darkvision, because the shadows provide concealment to hide in which is negated by Darkvision. This, however, is not the case if it is magical darkness whose concealment applies nonetheless.
2. "[True Seeing] does not negate concealment..."

 I somewhat disagree about the "Dark Creature" HiPS. The way I read it, it's not that shadows allow you to HiPS...it is that direct sunlight disallows you to HiPS. Therefore, a Dark creature could HiPS against a creature with darkvision provided the no sunlight part is met and he also has a way to get some concealment from the viewing creature without relying just being in shadowy light, something like the Blur spell for example.

I bow/defer/yield/concede/submit/admit/affirm/agree/avow/swan/aver/asseverate.

did you just vomit a thesaurus?

I buy a ring of dark hidden and look away before I spew too.

[Ed-Zero]

In a game I'm currently in, there are a couple of people running around with hide in plain sight all of the time... with checks in the 50's. To me, it's incredibly annoying especially in the middle of combat when they attack once and hide in plain sight in the shadow that a torch creates or another person. Looking at NiteCypers comment on HiPS above, it appears there are differences between the templates that give it and the classes.

I'm just asking because most of the enemies we've been fighting have darkvision. It makes no sense to me that they're able to attack him then hide in the shadow of something really small right next to them and the enemy has no idea where he went.

[Solo]

Yes, well unfortunately the rules don't care if the enemy doesn't see the shadows, only that the shadows exist.

The obvious way to counter this would of course be through having enemies with other extraordinary sensing abilities.

[NiteCyper]

In a game I'm currently in, there are a couple of people running around with hide in plain sight all of the time... with checks in the 50's. To me, it's incredibly annoying especially in the middle of combat when they attack once and hide in plain sight in the shadow that a torch creates or another person. Looking at NiteCypers comment on HiPS above, it appears there are differences between the templates that give it and the classes.

I'm just asking because most of the enemies we've been fighting have darkvision. It makes no sense to me that they're able to attack him then hide in the shadow of something really small right next to them and the enemy has no idea where he went.

(1) re: annoyance: as well, it should be so;
(2) re: "shadow that a torch creates": abuse of over-riding vs. stacking illumination rules, e.g. a torch creates shadowy illumination in day-light?
(3) re: Darkvision: you do not specify the version/nature/kind/sort/type of HiPS your team-mates employ;
(4) re: nonsense: I quadrate. This is quite the dichotomy of flavour vs. mechanic.

[spoiler]
I make new-found attempts to ameliorate my vocabulary.

Terminological verbose usage inevitably culminates into inadequate communicational torrents of linguistic disparity.

(1) "Terminological verbose usage" is arduous to enucleate; assay operation of a hyphen;
(2) "Inadequate communicational torrents of linguistic disparity" furthermore;
(3) Via progressive exegesis, I dissent, debarring/precluding QED.

(1) e.g., "Terminological verbose usage" of what? Transposition/permutation: "verbose [terminology-]usage", i.e. verbose usage of terminology. Else: terminological usage of verboseness, i.e. "terminological verbose[ness-]usage".
(2) e.g., Paraphrase: insufficient linguistic-disparity "communicational torrents". "Insufficient" and "disparity" makes a double negative/multiple negation/negative concord; paraphrase: sufficient linguistic-similarity "communicational torrents".
(3) Mark: want of pleonasm/prolixity would bridle/bit/curb colloquium.
[/spoiler]

[Bauglir]

What the flavor is is rather subjective. Since the ability explicitly says you don't have to be IN the shadows to use HiPS (just within 10 feet), it's entirely valid to believe that the character is magically manipulating the shadows somehow, or just requires them as a catalyst for use in their powers, or whatever.