Tome of Battle is fun, but...

[Lycanthromancer]

The King of Smack.

[SorO_Lost]

Iaijitsu Master Factotums wishing to forgo the awesomeness of maneuvers I suppose.

[Lycanthromancer]

Egoist 20 or egoist 10/slayer 10 with a boosted-out-the-wazoo psicrystal?

Druid 20.

Totemist/barbarian/totem rager really doesn't need maneuvers (he's strapped for feats, but has all sorts of goodness of his own).

Wizard 20 focused on summons and buffs.

[CantripN]

Anything with a Bard Base doesn't even need maneuvers for hitting or damage.

[Brainpiercing]

Feat-fighter:
Goliath Crasher6/Lion+Wolf Totem Barb2/Feat Rogue2/Monk2/Psywar2/Warmind5... Crusader1 , duh, and Martial Stance.

Sweeping Strike Crash Trip Stand still everything that doesn't tumble, maybe double-hit, karmic/Robilar's etc. However, without Thicket it's really not perfect.

[PhaedrusXY]

Can't you use Knight 3 instead of Thicket, if you rearrange a bit? Crusader 1 can't get Thicket without spending a feat on it, anyway. The first stance has to be first level.

[Lycanthromancer]

Ironically, psychic warrior doesn't need ToB at all to function really well, but they maneuvers and stances as class abilities (via bonus feats).

[Brainpiercing]

Can't you use Knight 3 instead of Thicket, if you rearrange a bit? Crusader 1 can't get Thicket without spending a feat on it, anyway. The first stance has to be first level.

... Crusader1 , duh, and Martial Stance.

I don't know about Knight, I never even looked at that class.

[PhaedrusXY]

Can't you use Knight 3 instead of Thicket, if you rearrange a bit? Crusader 1 can't get Thicket without spending a feat on it, anyway. The first stance has to be first level.

... Crusader1 , duh, and Martial Stance.

Oops. How did I miss that? 

[bearsarebrown]

Knight 3 is pretty bad. It only counts as difficult terrain if you begin your turn in threatened. And there are plenty of ways to get around it. Like flight.

[Tonymitsu]

Knight 3 is pretty bad. It only counts as difficult terrain if you begin your turn in threatened. And there are plenty of ways to get around it. Like flight.

I disagree.

The knight treats the area he threatens as difficult terrain.

You don't only threaten the floor, and not the space above it.

[bearsarebrown]

I disagree.

The knight treats the area he threatens as difficult terrain.

You don't only threaten the floor, and not the space above it.

I guess that's true. I didn't think of it like that. It's just strange to imagine.

Regardless, there are still ways to ignore difficult terrain.

[kurashu]

Regardless, there are still ways to ignore difficult terrain.

Like Elocater 1

[snakeman830]

Regardless, there are still ways to ignore difficult terrain.

Like Elocater 1

Yeah, but Elocators ignore things like Gravity anyway

[Anklebite]

step of the wind stance is a favorite of mine, and essential in the chuck build.

[Solo]

I like ToB.  It generally set the standard for 3.5 melee.  Nowadays, it seems every thread where ToB is allowed for a physical character it is encouraged.

Let's twist that.  What sorts of physical builds would you recommend that DON'T use Tome of Battle material?  That means no stances, no maneuvers, no Martial Study, no martial adepts, and so on.

Fistbeard Beardfist

[Brainpiercing]

I disagree.

The knight treats the area he threatens as difficult terrain.

You don't only threaten the floor, and not the space above it.

I guess that's true. I didn't think of it like that. It's just strange to imagine.

Regardless, there are still ways to ignore difficult terrain.

And while difficult terrain may stop charges, it doesn't stop 5-foot steps. Thicket + Stand Still or Knockback (+ >10 foot reach) is the only way to stop someone from ever reaching you.

[PhaedrusXY]

Regardless, there are still ways to ignore difficult terrain.

Like Elocater 1

I don't think that would ignore the knight's ability. It has nothing to do with the actual ground. As already stated, it works on the entire area he threatens, not just the ground in the area he threatens. Hell, it should work just fine even if he's flying 1000 feet in the air.

And while difficult terrain may stop charges, it doesn't stop 5-foot steps.

Yes it does, actually.

[Hijax]

Regardless, there are still ways to ignore difficult terrain.

Like Elocater 1

I don't think that would ignore the knight's ability. It has nothing to do with the actual ground. As already stated, it works on the entire area he threatens, not just the ground in the area he threatens. Hell, it should work just fine even if he's flying 1000 feet in the air.

And while difficult terrain may stop charges, it doesn't stop 5-foot steps.

Yes it does, actually.

I disagree. You threaten everything within, say, 20 ft with a reach weapon and minor tinkering with reach. If we treat reach as a restriction on what you can attack, then that restriction works in the vertical plane, too.

[PhaedrusXY]

I disagree. You threaten everything within, say, 20 ft with a reach weapon and minor tinkering with reach. If we treat reach as a restriction on what you can attack, then that restriction works in the vertical plane, too.

Of course. You misunderstand. I'm assuming his opponent is also flying 1000 feet in the air, within his reach.