Fiend of Possession Handbook

[McPoyo]

Just use my "Break the economy" method listed above at levels 1-3 to buy the ritual early.

[Banaticus]

I haven't found a GM yet who'd go for the idea of "I do X and I basically have unlimited amounts of gold", no matter how plausible X is.

[snakeman830]

LA for Divine Minion is +1 or +2.  CR is +0 or +1.

Might want to correct that.

[McPoyo]

I haven't found a GM yet who'd go for the idea of "I do X and I basically have unlimited amounts of gold", no matter how plausible X is.

typically, the game is either run RaW, or I have a conversation consisting of "Look, I want to use some abilities the way they are intended, in order to make enough money to qualify for a prc by buying a subtype that makes me weaker instead of stronger. I won't boost party wealth, or use the cash making method to make money for anything except buying this overpriced ritual if you don't cockblock me on it during party downtime in town."

Either way, it's going through. If not, then I play nearly anything else in the game and end up stronger as a character.

[trickydevl]

I have a quick question/idea. Can you use the possess noncontinuous object ability in conjunction with the curse ability to curse a group of people by possessing the floor they stand on, or a fog cloud spell their standing in? This seems to me a great way to debuff a large group of enemies.

[Phaenix]

Not sure if this works, but it might...

If an Incantatrix uses Metamagic Effect to apply Persist to a SMII (That's the questionable part... does Metamagic Effect overrule the Personal/fixed distance requirement of Persist?), then they could summon a kaorti for the full 8 hours that it requires for the kaorti to turn another character into a kaorti.

That would allow entry as soon as you have an 8th level incantatrix in the party. I think the ritual requires ~12th level to have enough gold.

Yay or nay?

[Nunkuruji]

Not sure if this works, but it might...

If an Incantatrix uses Metamagic Effect to apply Persist to a SMII (That's the questionable part... does Metamagic Effect overrule the Personal/fixed distance requirement of Persist?), then they could summon a kaorti for the full 8 hours that it requires for the kaorti to turn another character into a kaorti.

That would allow entry as soon as you have an 8th level incantatrix in the party. I think the ritual requires ~12th level to have enough gold.

Yay or nay?

What about just using Halaster's Fetch II or Lesser Planar Binding? 5th level spells and some diplomacy?

[Widow]

LA for Divine Minion is +1 or +2.  CR is +0 or +1.

Might want to correct that.

I currently have the divine minion listed in the +2 LA because I am assuming you will take a +1 divine minion version and apply it to a +1 LA diabolus or bladling.  There are no other relatively low LA creatures that I know of that qualify for the template and have an alignment subtype.  There is no reason to take the +2 version for a FoP or even a Master of many forms build, it will only hold you back a level.  It is also not the best route to gain the outsider type, the 1 level of Half-Fiend template conversion class, otherworldly, or a +0 LA outsider will do just fine if you are not going to apply the divine minion template to something with an alignment subtype.

I doubt there are any, I don't think I have ever seen a LA 0 1 or 2 creature with an alignment subtype.

Bladling MM2 and Diabolus from the dragon compedium.  Note the original diabolus was a +0 LA creature, but was changed in the dragon compendium supposedly as a 3.5 update.  It is annoying to tack on that +1 LA because of the one natural attack the creature has.

Not sure if this works, but it might...

If an Incantatrix uses Metamagic Effect to apply Persist to a SMII (That's the questionable part... does Metamagic Effect overrule the Personal/fixed distance requirement of Persist?), then they could summon a kaorti for the full 8 hours that it requires for the kaorti to turn another character into a kaorti.

That would allow entry as soon as you have an 8th level incantatrix in the party. I think the ritual requires ~12th level to have enough gold.

Yay or nay?

[Nunkuruji]

Bestiary of Krynn, Scourge of Chaos, 3rd level grants outsider type, chaos subtype

Not necessarily optimal, but it something to perhaps reference.

[Widow]

Bestiary of Krynn, Scourge of Chaos, 3rd level grants outsider type, chaos subtype

Not necessarily optimal, but it something to perhaps reference.

Nice catch!  I did not even realize they had prestige classes in that book.  Now we have a PrC that allows melee characters into the class at level 12, assuming you mix in Divine Minion.

Hmm, Duskblade 7/ Divine Minion 1/ Scourage of Chaos 3/ Fiend of Possession 3/ Duskblade 6

Buy a Eberron Dragon helm to get less shivering touch on your list and an empowered spell shard for lesser shivering touch

Level 1 Martial Maneuver (for hide skill)
Level 1 Power Attack
Level 3 Improved Sunder
Level 6 Still Spell
Level 9 Silent Spell
Level 12 Arcane Thesis (Shivering Touch Lesser)

[Dragonamedrake]

No one mentioned an Imp. Flavor wise I would say its pretty strong.

Imp as a Playable Character
[spoiler]- Tiny Outsider (Evil, Extraplanar, Lawful)
- Ability Score Modifiers: Dex +6, Wis +2, Cha +4
- Speed 20, Fly 50 (perfect)
- Special Qualities: An imp has the following special qualities: Alternate form, damage reduction 5/good or silver, darkvision 60 feet, See in Darkness, fast healing 2, immunity to poison, fire resist 5
- +5 Natural armor bonus
- An imp starts with one natural attack, a poisonous barb at the end of its tail that does 1d4 damage + Poison. Poison damage is 1d4 dex (DC: 10+2(racial)+1/2 HD + Con Mod ) and 2d4 dex secondary.
- An imp also has several Spell-like abilities: At will: Detect good, Detect Magic, Invisibility (self only)
- An imp starts with 3 levels of outsider (D8 HD, Good BAB, 1/1/1 saves, skill points equal to whatever your first class level will be). These outsider levels also allow an imp 2 feats (1st and 3rd level respectively).
- Level Adjustment: +2
[/spoiler]

[Widow]

No one mentioned an Imp. Flavor wise I would say its pretty strong.

Imp as a Playable Character
[spoiler]- Tiny Outsider (Evil, Extraplanar, Lawful)
- Ability Score Modifiers: Dex +6, Wis +2, Cha +4
- Speed 20, Fly 50 (perfect)
- Special Qualities: An imp has the following special qualities: Alternate form, damage reduction 5/good or silver, darkvision 60 feet, See in Darkness, fast healing 2, immunity to poison, fire resist 5
- +5 Natural armor bonus
- An imp starts with one natural attack, a poisonous barb at the end of its tail that does 1d4 damage + Poison. Poison damage is 1d4 dex (DC: 10+2(racial)+1/2 HD + Con Mod ) and 2d4 dex secondary.
- An imp also has several Spell-like abilities: At will: Detect good, Detect Magic, Invisibility (self only)
- An imp starts with 3 levels of outsider (D8 HD, Good BAB, 1/1/1 saves, skill points equal to whatever your first class level will be). These outsider levels also allow an imp 2 feats (1st and 3rd level respectively).
- Level Adjustment: +2
[/spoiler]

What book/website are the imp's LA listed at?

[McPoyo]

Don't forget the three outsider HD attached to it, though.

[Prime32]

Don't forget the three outsider HD attached to it, though.

Still, if you're using variant rules from RoW or Pathfinder...

[McPoyo]

Don't forget the three outsider HD attached to it, though.

Still, if you're using variant rules from RoW or Pathfinder...

Or have access to SS for the racial HD swap ritual...

There's plenty of ways around it, I just meant you won't be using one in a low-level starting game.

[bearsarebrown]

there is a spell in... fiendish codex I i'm pretty sure. it turns you into an Outsider for it's duration.

Devil's Ego? something like that.

[Widow]

there is a spell in... fiendish codex I i'm pretty sure. it turns you into an Outsider for it's duration.

Devil's Ego? something like that.

Devil's Ego only makes you an outsider, it does not grant you the evil subtype.  Also it is level 3, only on one domain list, and is located in Fiendish codex II.  Infernal Tranformation lesser is level 4, a generic cleric spell that grants the outsider type with the evil subtype (and baatezu which grants telepathy), and is in the more accessable (at least for some) spell compendium.  It would be a fine spell if you are playing a non-outsider with the evil subtype, but I dont know any good PC races that would qualify short of the ritual of alignment.

I do love the spell for my Cha to everything Gish though.

[McPoyo]

Just an update, the 3.0 to 3.5 update lists the LA of Bladelings as +2, not +1.

[Widow]

Just an update, the 3.0 to 3.5 update lists the LA of Bladelings as +2, not +1.

Ugh, it was bad enough already at a +1.  Why did they have to beat if further with the neft stick?  I will update the thread later.