Author Topic: advice on maximizing two and a half builds...  (Read 2612 times)

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nijineko

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advice on maximizing two and a half builds...
« on: March 17, 2010, 04:24:04 AM »
i am trying to rebuild two 16th level characters i have previously played.

the first is a human wizard (transmuter specializing w/ div/ill/necro prohibited) 11, master of the unseen hand 5, with stats of 18, 16, 14, 12, 12, 12 (before any stat adjusts). feats are currently spell focus and greater - transmutation, spell penetration and greater - transmutation, improved familiar, heighten spell, eschew materials, energy sub - sonic, and subdual sub - sonic. i'm sure that can be improved... i had dumped all my loot-to-date into obtaining a tome of understanding +5, and a headband of intellect, a blessed book, a cloak of elven kind, and a ring of telekinesis... and nothing else. i'm sure that can be fixed too.

i would like this character to stay a full master of the unseen hand, but other than that, i'm pretty open to ideas. my build is not really optimized for anything but the telekinesis, and that not very well either. help, please?



the second is either a cleric/fighter trying to focus on the lightning mace feat, a high dex and str, and anything else that boosts his attacks; stats of 18, 18, 16, 16, 12, 10 (before any stat adjusts-i rolled fairly well)... or a chameleon prestige. his stats are good enough to do a bit of anything.  i was having trouble honing a concept for this one. but i'd be open to anything in a "lightning mace" focus, or the chameleon focus... or both in one. ^^ help please?


the allowed materials are "any official wotc published material" including website, dragon, dungeon, and so forth... or "any official wotc published hardcover only" including the dragon compendium, but not any of the website, or other dragon/dungeon material; depending on which dm is running game. exalted deeds and vile darkness are forbidden by both dms. generally speaking, anything that requires an evil alignment is likely to be nixed too. just fyi for everyone. =D

please quote at least the book any feat, prestige, spell, or power is from so that i can find it. i'm not always familiar with acronyms for the prestiges either, so please use the full title at least once. =D

thank you all for any help and advice you care to give! my min/max-fu is feeling weak.  :bigeye

oh, and a ghost of some sort works for me too, btw. ;D (just in case a certain someone reads this)
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Solo

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Re: advice on maximizing two and a half builds...
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2010, 04:25:26 AM »
Make a pixie hood Lightening Maces work well with Disciple of Dispater and Katori Resin
« Last Edit: March 17, 2010, 04:28:15 AM by Solo »

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Havok4

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Re: advice on maximizing two and a half builds...
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2010, 01:27:32 PM »
Ghosts really are best for master of the unseen hand, much better than wizard really because a wizard will fall behind in spellcasting and has a lower BAB which is important for telekinesis use.

nijineko

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Re: advice on maximizing two and a half builds...
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2010, 05:19:17 PM »
Ghosts really are best for master of the unseen hand, much better than wizard really because a wizard will fall behind in spellcasting and has a lower BAB which is important for telekinesis use.

i can see how ghosts would have some advantages... but i don't really see how a wizard would fall behind. isn't the attack bonus derived from int for a MotUH?
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carnivore

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Re: advice on maximizing two and a half builds...
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2010, 05:23:38 PM »
notice:

Quote from: SRD
your base attack bonus + your Intelligence modifier (if a wizard) or Charisma modifier (if a sorcerer). Weapons cause standard damage (with no Strength bonus; note that arrows or bolts deal damage as daggers of their size when used in this manner). Other objects cause damage ranging from 1 point per 25 pounds (for less dangerous objects) to 1d6 points of damage per 25 pounds (for hard, dense objects).

Creatures who fall within the weight capacity of the spell can be hurled, but they are allowed Will saves (and spell resistance) to negate the effect, as are those whose held possessions are targeted by the spell. If a telekinesed creature is hurled against a solid surface, it takes damage as if it had fallen 10 feet (1d6 points).

Wizards get Poor BAB

 :D

Havok4

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Re: advice on maximizing two and a half builds...
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2010, 05:29:19 PM »
Also you gain huge tactical advantages due to being a ghost. And you can keep up your telekinesis all day long.

nijineko

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Re: advice on maximizing two and a half builds...
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2010, 02:52:39 AM »
ah yes... i thought there was some reason i kept trying to use a battle sorcerer for that build. i think the version with the wizard was slapped together real fast. i haven't looked at these characters in a few years. ^^ sooo, how do i boost the bab? abjurant champion? i think i was just thinking of boosting the spellsave dc as high as i could, hence specialist wizard plus the feats.

what would you recommend? i don't care much what is changed so long as it is a master of the unseen hand, and not evil. ^^
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: advice on maximizing two and a half builds...
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2010, 03:40:27 AM »
The major advantage spellcasters get from master of the unseen hand is the ability to use full attacks and chain telekinesis

Full attacks are at BAB = your caster level.  Chain telekinesis lets you effect up to 21 different weapons.  Yeah.
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Littha

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Re: advice on maximizing two and a half builds...
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2010, 11:07:42 AM »
so what happens if your caster level is 50+? do you get iterative attacks every 5 CL?

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Re: advice on maximizing two and a half builds...
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2010, 11:24:09 AM »
so what happens if your caster level is 50+? do you get iterative attacks every 5 CL?
"just as with nontelekinetic attacks, the master of the unseen hand gains an additional attack for every five points of Base Attack Bonus above +1 (using caster level for base attack bonus as described above)".  So I'd argue that it's capped at four iteratives, though you could possibly make an argument for it not being.

I'm sorry, by the way.  BAB = your caster level PLUS ability mod, not just caster level.

By the way, this is done as sustaining concentration (IE, standard action), and you can move weapons up to 20 feet before attacking.  You can't use weapon-related feats (like weapon focus or power attack), unfortunately. 

Just shows how much casters shaft normal classes.  Well, that and how awesome telekinesis is.
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Re: advice on maximizing two and a half builds...
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2010, 12:09:57 PM »
I'm somewhat surprised there is no psionic version of this class tbh...

nijineko

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Re: advice on maximizing two and a half builds...
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2010, 03:02:30 AM »
there were some suggestions for allowing psionic equivalent effects to qualify for various prestiges and what not, but i don't recall which book i read it in.
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nijineko

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Re: advice on maximizing two and a half builds...
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2010, 03:36:02 AM »
for the ghost bit, i won't be able to use the savage progressions from the site, that particular dm has a hang-up about only using "book" based materials. hence, no dungeon or dragon, but he allows the dragon compendium. so i'll have to use material from the ghostwalk campaign option instead. fortunately they have a version of ghost progression which isn't too bad a hit on the levels... only catch is trying to get the telekinesis ability. i'll probably have to take a few ghost levels to properly pull it off.
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Re: advice on maximizing two and a half builds...
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2010, 03:46:52 AM »
you do realize that you banned divination, right?
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nijineko

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Re: advice on maximizing two and a half builds...
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2010, 03:49:56 AM »
yes... what would you suggest as a better choice / combo?
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gorfnad

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Re: advice on maximizing two and a half builds...
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2010, 04:43:45 AM »
go with banning evocation/necromancy/enchantment since a wizard can't ban divination

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Re: advice on maximizing two and a half builds...
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2010, 08:28:32 AM »
For the master of the unseen hand, you should take practiced spellcaster.  That bumps your caster level up to 15.  You then add your levels in master of the unseen hand to your caster level to determine your effective caster level for telekinesis, 20. 

If you are going to have a ring of telekinesis, take note of this rule from the Dungeon Master's Guide (including errata):

Quote from: DMG
For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell and not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given.

So if you craft the ring, it can have caster level 20 instead of 9.  Alternately, since you can upgrade any item you can create, you can buy the ring at caster level 9 and upgrade it to caster level 20.  Since the cost of the ring is not a function of caster level, you don't need to spend any gold or XP. 

While it is technically possible to pay another caster to upgrade the ring, your DM may frown on that. 

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Re: advice on maximizing two and a half builds...
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2010, 12:06:59 PM »
Wasn't there a "Jean Gray" build around here somewhere that used wu jen to excellent effect?
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nijineko

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Re: advice on maximizing two and a half builds...
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2010, 03:58:09 AM »
thank you for those mentions. i was trying to calc the cost of boosting a ring of telekinesis and was getting odd numbers. course, i was using heighten spell to get the power limit on the spell up to do so.

if there are any builds, i should very much like to see them. =D

heck, if i can talk the dm into it, i'll use psionics to qualify. i'm open on what is best in order to qualify for the prestige, really.
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nijineko

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Re: advice on maximizing two and a half builds...
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2010, 05:42:54 PM »
anyone know where that telekinetic build was?
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