Author Topic: OOC Chat  (Read 108765 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

archangel.arcanis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2938
    • Email
Re: OOC Chat
« Reply #100 on: April 08, 2010, 02:31:40 PM »
^^
That would be an ideal way of handling it, I think.
More or less equalizes the pushing field.

I am leveled, though I may note that not many spells of note have the [Water] descriptor, including the early spells of the Water domain. Cloudburst(which would screw pyro up, but worth it vs massed ranged attackers) and Summon Nature's Ally(Water Elemental) are pretty much it.
Ditched the trident for weight capacity to hold an everburning torch, properly covered, of course.
Fire would have plenty to pick from, and theres a couple of gems for Earth. Air is about as screwed as Water at the early levels as far as spell completion goes. A lot of spells that intuitively belong to them do not actually have the tags.

I presume we would be made up the value of the expendables next level, as usual?
yeah this is what i was seeing too. There are a lot i think should have air/water tag but don't. But i'm not sure what else we could do besides specify certain spells in. I was going to say you get Horrid Wilting, one of my favorite spells for some reason, but despite doing dehydration damage (looking at srd it doesn't say dehydration anymore??) it doesn't have a water descriptor.

If we start handing out other elements such as Acid, Electricity, etc... Then it begins to skew or have overlap. Technically Acid should be associated with Earth by their rules but it also seems to fit Water. Electricity would probably add too much to air (and some spells just wouldn't fit thematically) but wouldn't seem logical for any others. Sonic would add some to air but might not fit thematically for most. Cold would go with water but would probably add too much to that list as well.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

VennDygrem

  • Member
  • Grape ape
  • *
  • Posts: 1689
    • Email
Re: OOC Chat
« Reply #101 on: April 08, 2010, 02:38:21 PM »
I believe I'm all caught up. Not much change for me. Some more hp, DR, BAB/will save, and I bought a wand. :)

RobbyPants

  • Moderator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 7139
Re: OOC Chat
« Reply #102 on: April 08, 2010, 02:44:09 PM »
Yeah, you'll get reimbursed for any used consumables.  Make sure to track that if you want it made up. ;)

I agree with the Wind Push.  Basically, it will be treated as a Bull Rush at range, but just on a contested Str vs Cha roll.

As for the elemental spells, I had a feeling it'd be lackluster.  I'm not sure how I'd want to add in energy types to them, though.  I can see granting air [ELECTRICITY] and [SONIC], and I can see granting water [ACID] and [COLD].  But it seems like earth and fire would get left out.  Fire doesn't seem like it should get anything else, and with earth, I used [FIRE] for two earth abilities (lava), but I don't think they should get [FIRE] spell completion/triggering.

What are your thoughts?
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

VennDygrem

  • Member
  • Grape ape
  • *
  • Posts: 1689
    • Email
Re: OOC Chat
« Reply #103 on: April 08, 2010, 03:00:13 PM »
Geomancer is more of a bruiser anyway, so they really don't need anything else. The others need spell-completion more for when they are otherwise SOL. A Geomancer can always pick up a weapon and be competent with it.

As for the pyro, their complete and utter obsession with fire lends itself to staying with just the fire descriptor. They're not just pyromancers, they're pyromaniacs. :D

veekie

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 9034
  • WARNING: Homing Miko
Re: OOC Chat
« Reply #104 on: April 08, 2010, 03:09:24 PM »
Well, Fire isn't particularly left out, since you know, it's got the widest selection of spell effects even if you include 2 elements for Water and Air, though the bulk of thematic Water/Air spells just plain lack tags at all, though you COULD throw in Light under Fire.

Earth though, could get maybe Force spells. Seems thematically close.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

archangel.arcanis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2938
    • Email
Re: OOC Chat
« Reply #105 on: April 08, 2010, 04:09:16 PM »
Well, Fire isn't particularly left out, since you know, it's got the widest selection of spell effects even if you include 2 elements for Water and Air, though the bulk of thematic Water/Air spells just plain lack tags at all, though you COULD throw in Light under Fire.

Earth though, could get maybe Force spells. Seems thematically close.
Agree entirely.
I think the biggest issue i personally have with it is the lack of tags on spells that obviously belong to one or the other. Fire probably already has more spells than all of the rest of us, granted they are likely repetitive or overlap with his abilities. Remember the spell completion was just a tack on at the end anyway (for all but fire) so i'm not sure how much power we really want to give to the ability. They should be useful for things our class abilities don't grant us already.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

veekie

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 9034
  • WARNING: Homing Miko
Re: OOC Chat
« Reply #106 on: April 08, 2010, 05:09:08 PM »
^^
Well, yeah, which puts a bit of a kink in it, since well, theres very little that the element tagged spells do that the class can't already. Fire gets a small out due to the sheer array of fire damage spells and heck, any spell substituted to fire, they get some utilities bound up in those.

The trick is that these spell completion stuff work best for the elementalists at low levels, about 1-4 or so, where not all the iconic class powers are realized yet. Once you get to level 10 or so, theres really nothing much the spell completion toys can give.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Sohala

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1268
  • Hammer Smash Good
    • Email
Re: OOC Chat
« Reply #107 on: April 08, 2010, 09:46:33 PM »
Yeah, you'll get reimbursed for any used consumables.  Make sure to track that if you want it made up. ;)
You mean we like get our gold back after using? I am use to, use it and lose it...interesting...
"You think I'm talking about breaking the rules?"
"No I'm just trying to figure out how far you want them bent."
[spoiler]
Characters
Ixen-Elemental Mage Test Game
Torgthen-The Darkening
Eldak-The Neverending Dungeon
Games
Dungeon Delver's Delight
Adventures in Eberron
Town of Terror
Working Progress
[3.5] Mana Mage

RobbyPants

  • Moderator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 7139
Re: OOC Chat
« Reply #108 on: April 09, 2010, 12:03:40 AM »
I'd have to read through the WBL stuff again, but I seem to remember reading both here and at the Den that the system assumes reimbursement.  If anyone has more info as to where it says that, I'd like to learn. ;)

Of course, it's not that crazy powerful when you think about it.  Once you can afford permanent items, you're going to start spending your gold on those anyway.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

veekie

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 9034
  • WARNING: Homing Miko
Re: OOC Chat
« Reply #109 on: April 09, 2010, 02:05:40 AM »
Well,  I do know the encounter loot tables provide a good chunk more loot than the WBL table suggests you'd have, which presumably accounts for consumables.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Sohala

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1268
  • Hammer Smash Good
    • Email
Re: OOC Chat
« Reply #110 on: April 09, 2010, 02:05:56 PM »
Leveled and geared.
"You think I'm talking about breaking the rules?"
"No I'm just trying to figure out how far you want them bent."
[spoiler]
Characters
Ixen-Elemental Mage Test Game
Torgthen-The Darkening
Eldak-The Neverending Dungeon
Games
Dungeon Delver's Delight
Adventures in Eberron
Town of Terror
Working Progress
[3.5] Mana Mage

RobbyPants

  • Moderator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 7139
Re: OOC Chat
« Reply #111 on: April 09, 2010, 03:34:54 PM »
It looks like four of the five PCs are leveled.  I won't be able to get around to posting a fight tonight, but I'm hoping to get one up tomorrow morning.

Also, Sohala, I just realized that you took Weapon Focus as one of your feats, which has a prereq of BAB +1.  I never caught that earlier.  You should swap that for something else.  I know you'd considered Weapon Finesse at one point as I modified the prereqs for it.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

Sohala

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1268
  • Hammer Smash Good
    • Email
Re: OOC Chat
« Reply #112 on: April 09, 2010, 04:01:15 PM »
I got to start making more level one characters, I forget so many things... Changed to Improved Initiative, will pick focus back up at third I guess.

If I went the Weapon Finesse path I would go back and pick up twf, but at low levels I do not seeing that to be overly viable.

Do we want to mess with rebuilding with this test at later levels?
"You think I'm talking about breaking the rules?"
"No I'm just trying to figure out how far you want them bent."
[spoiler]
Characters
Ixen-Elemental Mage Test Game
Torgthen-The Darkening
Eldak-The Neverending Dungeon
Games
Dungeon Delver's Delight
Adventures in Eberron
Town of Terror
Working Progress
[3.5] Mana Mage

VennDygrem

  • Member
  • Grape ape
  • *
  • Posts: 1689
    • Email
Re: OOC Chat
« Reply #113 on: April 09, 2010, 04:12:34 PM »
Based on the sheets, we're all leveled up (though Aepa's sheet still says he's level 1, though the rest reflects being level 2).

archangel.arcanis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2938
    • Email
Re: OOC Chat
« Reply #114 on: April 09, 2010, 04:16:32 PM »
Based on the sheets, we're all leveled up (though Aepa's sheet still says he's level 1, though the rest reflects being level 2).
he is level 2 i must have just forgot to change that on there.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

VennDygrem

  • Member
  • Grape ape
  • *
  • Posts: 1689
    • Email
Re: OOC Chat
« Reply #115 on: April 09, 2010, 04:20:42 PM »
Yeah, no biggie. Like I said, it was clear you had leveled him up, just not the Level-line.

RobbyPants

  • Moderator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 7139
Re: OOC Chat
« Reply #116 on: April 09, 2010, 04:34:37 PM »
Excellent.  Again, I probably won't post a fight until the next morning.

As for retraining, I'm not sure how to best handle it.  I can certainly see it if it looks like one character isn't keeping up with the others, but it doesn't look like a class-balance issue.  Do any of you see any way that retraining would undermine testing the classes?

Also, assuming we wouldn't be doing any quest-based retraining nonsense, how would we handle it?  Allow one-for-one feat swaps assuming that they all still meet the prereqs?  I think that would be fine if no one else has a problem with it.  If nothing else, we can test more characters in a shorter time.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

veekie

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 9034
  • WARNING: Homing Miko
Re: OOC Chat
« Reply #117 on: April 09, 2010, 04:42:06 PM »
Limited retraining should be fine.
Just allow one thing to be swapped each level.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

archangel.arcanis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2938
    • Email
Re: OOC Chat
« Reply #118 on: April 09, 2010, 05:40:02 PM »
since windstrike is no longer a viable target for ability focus i'm going to move my planned 3rd & 6th level feats up. So i'll replace ability focus (windstrike) with born flyer and BF with fly by attack at 3rd.

i'm in need of feat ideas guys. I figured i would start seeing some things that jump out at me as needed and i'm just not.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

Flay Crimsonwind

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1310
  • Watching the World Burn in Magnificence
    • Email
Re: OOC Chat
« Reply #119 on: April 09, 2010, 10:42:54 PM »
Leveled, looking for gear to buy now (aside from mastercrafting my flail... probably not the axe... think it's worth it for lv 2?).

Can I retrain quick draw for combat expertise? I dunno how bad retraining affects things, it's more a way of correcting any big mistakes or such. Plus picking up imp. trip would be nice, flail and all. Also, tripping people from underground is almost more fun than leaping out of the ground and attacking them.  :D