Author Topic: The end of all "AntiMage" threads  (Read 83592 times)

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PhaedrusXY

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Re: The end of all "AntiMage" threads
« Reply #80 on: March 12, 2010, 07:09:48 PM »


Normally I would say this is a sign of self-centered GMing, i.e. the GM sees himself as the grand presenter of the plot he has invented, and the players get to beat down the bad guys at the appointed places.

I think it has more to do with the next BBEG being to powerful for us at level 11, and our game structure is more focused on small individual adventures with the overall plot only coming into it very rarely. So we might be level 15 before the main plot would comes into our game again.
The DM could give you clues that you aren't powerful enough to face the BBEG yet. When I DM, I tell the players that they shouldn't expect every NPC in the world to represent a CR-appropriate encounter. If they go pick a fight with a great wyrm red dragon and they're level 1, I will kill them all without remorse. ;) It makes the game too stupid and unbelievable to do otherwise, IMO.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Brainpiercing

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Re: The end of all "AntiMage" threads
« Reply #81 on: March 12, 2010, 07:30:43 PM »


Normally I would say this is a sign of self-centered GMing, i.e. the GM sees himself as the grand presenter of the plot he has invented, and the players get to beat down the bad guys at the appointed places.

I think it has more to do with the next BBEG being to powerful for us at level 11, and our game structure is more focused on small individual adventures with the overall plot only coming into it very rarely. So we might be level 15 before the main plot would comes into our game again.
The DM could give you clues that you aren't powerful enough to face the BBEG yet. When I DM, I tell the players that they shouldn't expect every NPC in the world to represent a CR-appropriate encounter. If they go pick a fight with a great wyrm red dragon and they're level 1, I will kill them all without remorse. ;) It makes the game too stupid and unbelievable to do otherwise, IMO.
Pretty much that. I won't say I'm perfect with the hints, OR that I don't also give CR appropriate encounters - IF I bring them as encounters. It's fights the PC can pick which are not necessarily appropriate.

PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: The end of all "AntiMage" threads
« Reply #82 on: March 13, 2010, 12:32:59 AM »
]The DM could give you clues that you aren't powerful enough to face the BBEG yet. When I DM, I tell the players that they shouldn't expect every NPC in the world to represent a CR-appropriate encounter. If they go pick a fight with a great wyrm red dragon and they're level 1, I will kill them all without remorse. ;) It makes the game too stupid and unbelievable to do otherwise, IMO.
I agree :). However it doesn't relate to the thread :(

Talking about COP planes is fine because it is a very large trick up a caster's sleeve. Without banning/mega-nerfing it (but even us optimizers probably would) I'd say preventing it from being cast is only of the few or only ways to make it fair for a non-caster. Right?
[Spoiler]
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An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
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Hijax

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Re: The end of all "AntiMage" threads
« Reply #83 on: March 15, 2010, 12:27:54 PM »
not sur if this is possible, but arcane archer+antimagic field= WHAM!
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bearsarebrown

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Re: The end of all "AntiMage" threads
« Reply #84 on: March 15, 2010, 12:36:01 PM »
AMF doesn't shut down casters.

Not only does he see it coming, but it has both a Contingency and Invoke Magic and maybe even Initiate of Mystra.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: The end of all "AntiMage" threads
« Reply #85 on: March 15, 2010, 02:25:29 PM »
AMF doesn't shut down casters.

Not only does he see it coming, but it has both a Contingency and Invoke Magic and maybe even Initiate of Mystra.
Actually the arcane archer version is pretty good at shutting them down. The AMF doesn't "go off" till they've already been hit with the arrow. And it is CORE, so it will work in any game. Not every caster is a Cheater of Mystra, or has a Contingency or Invoke Magic to deal with it.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: The end of all "AntiMage" threads
« Reply #86 on: March 15, 2010, 02:40:06 PM »
AMF doesn't shut down casters.

Not only does he see it coming, but it has both a Contingency and Invoke Magic and maybe even Initiate of Mystra.
Actually the arcane archer version is pretty good at shutting them down. The AMF doesn't "go off" till they've already been hit with the arrow. And it is CORE, so it will work in any game. Not every caster is a Cheater of Mystra, or has a Contingency or Invoke Magic to deal with it.
Of course, if the AMF ends up trapping you inside your hat with the arrow, there's always the option of just covering it up with your handkerchief and blocking the LOE.  Preferably in such a way that keeps the hat up, but whatever.
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: The end of all "AntiMage" threads
« Reply #87 on: March 15, 2010, 02:40:56 PM »
AMF doesn't shut down casters.

Not only does he see it coming, but it has both a Contingency and Invoke Magic and maybe even Initiate of Mystra.
Actually the arcane archer version is pretty good at shutting them down. The AMF doesn't "go off" till they've already been hit with the arrow. And it is CORE, so it will work in any game. Not every caster is a Cheater of Mystra, or has a Contingency or Invoke Magic to deal with it.
Of course, if the AMF ends up trapping you inside your hat with the arrow, there's always the option of just covering it up with your handkerchief and blocking the LOE.  Preferably in such a way that keeps the hat up, but whatever.
Is that an adamantine handkerchief? :D

More seriously, I don't think that would work. The effect is centered on the target (so caster), not the arrow, IIRC.
Quote
If you get hit with the arrow, I'd say you are "where it landed".
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 02:43:34 PM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

juton

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Re: The end of all "AntiMage" threads
« Reply #88 on: March 15, 2010, 02:45:41 PM »
Ordained Champion's channel spell ability would let you put an AMF centered on the Wizard. You'd have to go up and whack the caster with a melee weapon, but if you could do that you could shut them down.

EDIT: Arcane Archer's power works this way too. If you hit the Wizard then the Wizard is the AMF.

Havok4

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Re: The end of all "AntiMage" threads
« Reply #89 on: March 15, 2010, 02:48:39 PM »
That would work if you can get within melee range of the wizards but that is very difficult to do.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: The end of all "AntiMage" threads
« Reply #90 on: March 15, 2010, 02:49:22 PM »
Even more technically, then it's not centered on you per se, rather on the point in space that the arrow hit you at.  You might need to hide under a blanket or pull out a cardboard  box or something, but blocking LoE is still workable.  Although I'm not sure if "lands" is the right verb to describe impaling somebody.

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KellKheraptis

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Re: The end of all "AntiMage" threads
« Reply #91 on: March 15, 2010, 02:49:48 PM »
Let's not forget that a proper SCM can probably still pull a miracle out of a 4th level slot...literally :P
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Havok4

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Re: The end of all "AntiMage" threads
« Reply #92 on: March 15, 2010, 02:51:40 PM »
Let's not forget that a proper SCM can probably still pull a miracle out of a 4th level slot...literally :P

How early can they pull that off?

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Re: The end of all "AntiMage" threads
« Reply #93 on: March 15, 2010, 03:23:11 PM »
Personally, I like the idea of wrapping some Shrink Item'd water around the AMF arrow (what with the shrunk item gaining clothlike consistenncy). If it hits, the caster is inside his adamantine cone within an AMF, submerged in water.

Not my idea, sadly.
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Hijax

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Re: The end of all "AntiMage" threads
« Reply #94 on: March 15, 2010, 04:27:16 PM »
Personally, I like the idea of wrapping some Shrink Item'd water around the AMF arrow (what with the shrunk item gaining clothlike consistenncy). If it hits, the caster is inside his adamantine cone within an AMF, submerged in water.

Not my idea, sadly.

this is pure awesome.
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juton

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Re: The end of all "AntiMage" threads
« Reply #95 on: March 15, 2010, 04:54:13 PM »
Even more technically, then it's not centered on you per se, rather on the point in space that the arrow hit you at.  You might need to hide under a blanket or pull out a cardboard  box or something, but blocking LoE is still workable.  Although I'm not sure if "lands" is the right verb to describe impaling somebody.

Collapsible hatracks: now available at your local wizardry supply store.

If even a little bit of a person is in an emanation then they take the full effect. So if the arrow hits you then you are in an AMF.

Personally, I like the idea of wrapping some Shrink Item'd water around the AMF arrow (what with the shrunk item gaining clothlike consistenncy). If it hits, the caster is inside his adamantine cone within an AMF, submerged in water.

Not my idea, sadly.

I love the AMF water balloon! For the sake of argument lets say that an Arcane Archer has some way of dropping an AMF on a Wizard. Is there anyway we can
guarantee the Archer gets to take a shot, and that the blasted Dire Tortoised/Celerityd caster doesn't go before them completely negating their attack.

Hijax

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Re: The end of all "AntiMage" threads
« Reply #96 on: March 15, 2010, 04:55:44 PM »
Even more technically, then it's not centered on you per se, rather on the point in space that the arrow hit you at.  You might need to hide under a blanket or pull out a cardboard  box or something, but blocking LoE is still workable.  Although I'm not sure if "lands" is the right verb to describe impaling somebody.

Collapsible hatracks: now available at your local wizardry supply store.

If even a little bit of a person is in an emanation then they take the full effect. So if the arrow hits you then you are in an AMF.

Personally, I like the idea of wrapping some Shrink Item'd water around the AMF arrow (what with the shrunk item gaining clothlike consistenncy). If it hits, the caster is inside his adamantine cone within an AMF, submerged in water.

Not my idea, sadly.

I love the AMF water balloon! For the sake of argument lets say that an Arcane Archer has some way of dropping an AMF on a Wizard. Is there anyway we can
guarantee the Archer gets to take a shot, and that the blasted Dire Tortoised/Celerityd caster doesn't go before them completely negating their attack.


Total stealth mode and optimizing range on our arrows so we can shoot them before they can see us?
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juton

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Re: The end of all "AntiMage" threads
« Reply #97 on: March 15, 2010, 06:12:32 PM »
I got to thinking about Contact Other Plane. There is no specific RAW defense against it. Even the general anti-divination spells don't work because it's a god watching on you. But what if you politely asked said god to stop telling Wizards your plans?

Enter Miracle.

Miracle allows you to choose an effect that is not specifically from a spell. Since COP-out is a 5th level spell it would be in line with the power of a 7th level spell to stop Contact Other Plane from relaying any information about you. COP even states 'On rare occasions, this divination may be blocked by an act of certain deities or forces'.

The problem with this is that there is a subjective element to it. That and a Wizard could potentially Miracle the lines of communication open again. Still it could work, or be a part of the larger solution.

Tonymitsu

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Re: The end of all "AntiMage" threads
« Reply #98 on: March 15, 2010, 06:25:40 PM »
I think we are all forgetting the biggest problem with ranged attacks here.


Foresight:  "Hey wizard, you're about to get stuck with an arrow.  Some dude already fired it and impact is imminent."

Wizard:  "...Oh."

/cast Wind Wall



what about a hulking Hurler build throwing an obsidian boulder on him?  Can't exactly Ironguard against a rock.

KellKheraptis

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Re: The end of all "AntiMage" threads
« Reply #99 on: March 15, 2010, 06:29:30 PM »
I think we are all forgetting the biggest problem with ranged attacks here.


Foresight:  "Hey wizard, you're about to get stuck with an arrow.  Some dude already fired it and impact is imminent."

Wizard:  "...Oh."

/cast Wind Wall



what about a hulking Hurler build throwing an obsidian boulder on him?  Can't exactly Ironguard against a rock.


You can always earthglide into it though...
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