Author Topic: Optimizing Lich's Phylactery  (Read 12755 times)

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mans0011

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Re: Optimizing Lich's Phylactery
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2010, 12:25:48 AM »
Cleric 3/Walker in the waste 10 gets you dry lich at the cost of 2 lost caster levels. plus you have 6 phylacteries. Not early entry as you can get into normal lich at level 11 but i don't think you take the LA so its better in the long run.

I'm not AS concerned about LA.
OOC-well for that matter he could just ride on my sword, that's about 15' ;)
OOC - That's what SHE said!  But, otherwise, that works for me, if you guys are willing.

altpersona

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Re: Optimizing Lich's Phylactery
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2010, 01:14:26 AM »
dracolich is early entry w/ kobald
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Littha

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Re: Optimizing Lich's Phylactery
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2010, 01:25:15 AM »
Cleric 3/Walker in the waste 10 gets you dry lich at the cost of 2 lost caster levels. plus you have 6 phylacteries. Not early entry as you can get into normal lich at level 11 but i don't think you take the LA so its better in the long run.

I'm not AS concerned about LA.

Walker in the waste gets you lich at ECL 13, normal lich gets you lich at ECL 15 (11 + 4 LA) I should have clarified.

LunaticsLament

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Re: Optimizing Lich's Phylactery
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2010, 02:27:22 AM »
I could be wrong, but I don't think there's much in the way of optimizing your Lich's phylactery.

What are the best items (I'm thinking NOT something you wear...)

Where is the best place to hide it? (probably NOT your house/tower/whatever)

What are the best spells to keep it secret, keep it safe? (secret chest? etc)

thoughts?

My old DM had his lich BBEG find the Taresque.  Due to the fact that Taresque apparently (to his interpretation) only waking up when it sensed living things in it's lair, he hid his phylactery under the some of the scales of the Taresque and glued it on with sovereign glue and a permanencied stick, and a few other protective things a well.  Needless to say...  We never did kill the damned lich.
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Optimizing Lich's Phylactery
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2010, 03:51:02 AM »
Is there any early-entry cheese for Lich?

I have access to wish economy, I've also got no restrictions on mundane wealth, but not necessarily the time. Also, I don't need to worry about crafting feats/xp costs.
Check out the lich savage progression? 



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Re: Optimizing Lich's Phylactery
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2010, 04:05:33 AM »
Cleric 3/Walker in the waste 10 gets you dry lich at the cost of 2 lost caster levels. plus you have 6 phylacteries. Not early entry as you can get into normal lich at level 11 but i don't think you take the LA so its better in the long run.

But that's a pretty debatable entry.

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Re: Optimizing Lich's Phylactery
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2010, 04:25:57 AM »
Cleric 3/Walker in the waste 10 gets you dry lich at the cost of 2 lost caster levels. plus you have 6 phylacteries. Not early entry as you can get into normal lich at level 11 but i don't think you take the LA so its better in the long run.

I'm not AS concerned about LA.

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Littha

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Re: Optimizing Lich's Phylactery
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2010, 07:30:19 AM »
Cleric 3/Walker in the waste 10 gets you dry lich at the cost of 2 lost caster levels. plus you have 6 phylacteries. Not early entry as you can get into normal lich at level 11 but i don't think you take the LA so its better in the long run.

But that's a pretty debatable entry.

True but they do say:
"Able to cast three spells of the Sand or Thirst Domains"
and not
"Able to cast three spells of the Sand Domain or three spells of the Thirst Domain"

bearsarebrown

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Re: Optimizing Lich's Phylactery
« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2010, 11:08:08 AM »
I've always honestly thought you were supposed to enter at Cleric 3. And you got early entry because you need to be able to pay for the LA. Which, IMO, it's clear that is what is intended. The capstone of the class allows you to assume the template. No one else can be Dry Liches but Walkers In The Waste. And if no one else could be it, then why bother listing an LA if you don't take it?

mans0011

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Re: Optimizing Lich's Phylactery
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2010, 11:17:06 AM »
Hmm... I dunno. The more I look at lich, the less viable it is. Even though it's a cool flavor thing, it's just not for PCs. Makes a GREAT bbeg, though.
OOC-well for that matter he could just ride on my sword, that's about 15' ;)
OOC - That's what SHE said!  But, otherwise, that works for me, if you guys are willing.

Littha

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Re: Optimizing Lich's Phylactery
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2010, 11:26:37 AM »
I've always honestly thought you were supposed to enter at Cleric 3. And you got early entry because you need to be able to pay for the LA. Which, IMO, it's clear that is what is intended. The capstone of the class allows you to assume the template. No one else can be Dry Liches but Walkers In The Waste. And if no one else could be it, then why bother listing an LA if you don't take it?

What about Dread Necromancer then? Though I suppose for most cases your ECL won't matter at level 20 anyway .... Though there was that Custserv thing that said you don't gain the template i never put much faith in those.

snakeman830

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Re: Optimizing Lich's Phylactery
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2010, 12:38:19 PM »
I've always honestly thought you were supposed to enter at Cleric 3. And you got early entry because you need to be able to pay for the LA. Which, IMO, it's clear that is what is intended. The capstone of the class allows you to assume the template. No one else can be Dry Liches but Walkers In The Waste. And if no one else could be it, then why bother listing an LA if you don't take it?

What about Dread Necromancer then? Though I suppose for most cases your ECL won't matter at level 20 anyway .... Though there was that Custserv thing that said you don't gain the template i never put much faith in those.
The general rule of transformative classes/Prestige classes is that you don't gain the LA of the template.

Also, here is the text refrencing the Walker in the Waste:
Quote from: Sandstorm
To become a dry lich, a walker in the waste who has
reached 10th level in that prestige class must undergo
the Sere Rite. This ritual requires the participation of at
least one other dry lich, and the prospective dry lich must
also craft a set of five canopic jars in which to preserve
its internal organs. (See page 94 for more information.)
These jars retain the dry lich's life force, and unless they
are destroyed, a slain dry lich resurrects within 1d6 weeks
after its destruction.
Note that it says that 10th level Walker in the Waste must undergo the rite.  This doesn't forbid people without levels in the PrC from undergoing the rite, just those who have reached WitW 10 from not taking it.
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If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Optimizing Lich's Phylactery
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2010, 01:29:52 PM »

True. I'm mostly worried about hiding it from:

Pun-pun...
lol. Here is how: make sure he doesn't care enough about you to look for it. ;)

Also, no one has really asked about the details of time travel in the campaign yet. I have a few house rules involving time travel which will make things a bit more "fair" for you guys later on, but they haven't been explicitly stated yet, because no one has investigated/discussed that stuff in game. I should probably bring this up in the OOC thread because it is likely that a couple of your characters would know of them in game. I just hadn't because they/you hadn't gotten to the point where they were relevant yet.
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Senevri

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Re: Optimizing Lich's Phylactery
« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2010, 01:38:34 PM »
Walker in the waste gets you lich at ECL 13, normal lich gets you lich at ECL 15 (11 + 4 LA) I should have clarified.
Uh, no.
Craft Wondrous Items = level 3.
CL 11.

Wizard 6/Wild Mage 1 with an Ioun Stone, Orange Prism and necessary feats  qualifies. For an example.

There's a tricky bit where Bonus to Caster Level is not Caster Level.

In Pathfinder, a Commoner Master Craftsman with that cityscape feat could do it at level 10.

Re: Pun-pun... Considering he can exist in every place and time simultaneously, gets kinda tricky. Not to mention he has the following ability:
Quote
I found your Phylactery!(ex):
Prerequisite: Be Pun-pun.
Benefit: Pun-pun found your phylactery, last round. It is now in his possession.
Normal: Pun-pun would have had to actually spend an action and explain how he found your phylactery.

*edit*
Wait, PhaedrusXY is the DM?

mans0011

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Re: Optimizing Lich's Phylactery
« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2010, 01:42:06 PM »

True. I'm mostly worried about hiding it from:

Pun-pun...
lol. Here is how: make sure he doesn't care enough about you to look for it. ;)

Also, no one has really asked about the details of time travel in the campaign yet. I have a few house rules involving time travel which will make things a bit more "fair" for you guys later on, but they haven't been explicitly stated yet, because no one has investigated/discussed that stuff in game. I should probably bring this up in the OOC thread because it is likely that a couple of your characters would know of them in game. I just hadn't because they/you hadn't gotten to the point where they were relevant yet.

Yeah. I'm thinking I might just be some sort of Cable/Trunks type guy. Except that, instead of actually being from the future, I'm a mage who's spent CONSIDERABLE amounts of his life studying time/divination magic.

And also that bit about being an agent (whether officially or unofficially) of Io/Chronepsus. Sort of a confluence of events that make me a good champion for this quest.
OOC-well for that matter he could just ride on my sword, that's about 15' ;)
OOC - That's what SHE said!  But, otherwise, that works for me, if you guys are willing.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Optimizing Lich's Phylactery
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2010, 02:09:35 PM »
*edit*
Wait, PhaedrusXY is the DM?
Yeah. :D

In my game, he won't be able to exist at all points in space and time. He also just recently "ascended", and so hasn't reached infinite power. In theory, it might be possible for him to reach infinity in an infinitesimal amount of time. In practice, I think it would take some time (he doesn't have all of our metagame knowledge when he starts out) and he would likely never actually reach infinite power because once he reaches a certain point, and the other gods notice him, he has to worry about defending himself and becomes "distracted".

I don't care to debate any of this because as the DM, that's the way it works. I don't care how other people think it should work "in theory". ;) I also have to worry about making it "fair" for the PCs. So he actually has some limitations in my game. Of course, they don't know what all of those are. They'll have to figure them out in game.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

mans0011

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Re: Optimizing Lich's Phylactery
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2010, 02:18:23 PM »
*edit*
Wait, PhaedrusXY is the DM?
Yeah. :D

In my game, he won't be able to exist at all points in space and time. He also just recently "ascended", and so hasn't reached infinite power. In theory, it might be possible for him to reach infinity in an infinitesimal amount of time. In practice, I think it would take some time (he doesn't have all of our metagame knowledge when he starts out) and he would likely never actually reach infinite power because once he reaches a certain point, and the other gods notice him, he has to worry about defending himself and becomes "distracted".

I don't care to debate any of this because as the DM, that's the way it works. I don't care how other people think it should work "in theory". ;) I also have to worry about making it "fair" for the PCs. So he actually has some limitations in my game. Of course, they don't know what all of those are. They'll have to figure them out in game.


Also... I mean, really? To do all that Khan talks about, Pun-pun would have to devote a LOT of his waking hours (if he still needs them) to defending himself, both actively and contingently. Pun-pun's got... bigger fish to fry than ecl 8 peoples, lol.
OOC-well for that matter he could just ride on my sword, that's about 15' ;)
OOC - That's what SHE said!  But, otherwise, that works for me, if you guys are willing.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Optimizing Lich's Phylactery
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2010, 03:04:45 PM »
Also... I mean, really? To do all that Khan talks about, Pun-pun would have to devote a LOT of his waking hours (if he still needs them) to defending himself, both actively and contingently. Pun-pun's got... bigger fish to fry than ecl 8 peoples, lol.
Exactly. The best thing you guys have going for you is anonymity. What do you mean by "really?", though?
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

mans0011

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Re: Optimizing Lich's Phylactery
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2010, 03:42:22 PM »
Also... I mean, really? To do all that Khan talks about, Pun-pun would have to devote a LOT of his waking hours (if he still needs them) to defending himself, both actively and contingently. Pun-pun's got... bigger fish to fry than ecl 8 peoples, lol.
Exactly. The best thing you guys have going for you is anonymity. What do you mean by "really?", though?

I mean that Pun-pun's ascension takes a fair amount of time and effort. And will register on SOMEONE's radar. That someone will want to investigate. And I'm sure that, even para-ascension, he's gonna have to watch his back.
OOC-well for that matter he could just ride on my sword, that's about 15' ;)
OOC - That's what SHE said!  But, otherwise, that works for me, if you guys are willing.

jojolagger

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Re: Optimizing Lich's Phylactery
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2010, 04:31:22 PM »
If you can use Ebberon it becomes very easy. If you can't Price goes up for rings of sustenance.
1. Get the leadership feat.
2. Get loads of followers that are warforged clerics. It doesn't matter about their class or stats, one level of cleric is a must.
3. Make sure they have the Blackwalker domain from stormwrack.
4. Send them to mine a giant hole in the ocean floor. When they are 1000 feet down, thats 1d6 damage per round (plus the damage they took to get there) to anyone else. The deeps point in earth's ocean is 36,200 feet down or 326d6 damage per minute (average 114 damage per round).
5. Give one of the low level minions your Phylactery(an amulet), and give all others down there a duplicate.
6. Slap on anticipate teleport, Divert teleport, as many anti-divination spells as you can, and repulsion (for the amulets. add Banality if you can use it)
7. Make some giant castle on the negative energy plane where you are clearly keeping your Phylactery
8. Have a book at the end of the castle that is titles "the true location of the Phylactery". It is really the book of explosive runes.
9. Realize you can have multiple Phylacteries. (aka. go Voldemort on them)
10. Give some to many minions at the bottom.
11. ???
12. Profit
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