Author Topic: It's a DC 21 UMD check for Beguiler to use a lvl-1 Wiz/Sor-only spell Runestaff?  (Read 3635 times)

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NiteCyper

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I just realized both require having the spell on your spell-list. So, a Runestaff of 1/day Net of Shadows for a Beguiler doesn't help. I just want a Beguiler to nab a low-level (0-1) Shadow spell to qualify early for the Shadowcraft Mage PrC without spending a feat. They'll be eating up the first-level feats for casting it as a 4th-level spell.

Does there exist an item for this purpose?


Original title: "Knowstones and Runestaffs suck"

Reply #8 onwards.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 03:24:52 PM by NiteCyper »
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snakeman830

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Re: Knowstones and Runestaffs suck
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2010, 06:19:53 PM »
Why not UMD to pretend you have the spells on your list to activate the Knowstone/Runestaff?  It's a class skill, after all.
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Hallack

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Re: Knowstones and Runestaffs suck
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2010, 06:29:23 PM »
Yep, UMD is my plan for Beguiler I am playing.
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Knowstones and Runestaffs suck
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2010, 06:33:53 PM »
I just realized both require having the spell on your spell-list. So, a Runestaff of 1/day Net of Shadows for a Beguiler doesn't help. I just want a Beguiler to nab a low-level (0-1) Shadow spell to qualify early for the Shadowcraft Mage PrC without spending a feat. They'll be eating up the first-level feats for casting it as a 4th-level spell.

Does there exist an item for this purpose?
Check these two things. I think at least one of them doesn't require the spell to be on your list... but of course, you won't be able to afford them at level 1...

Drake Helm (Explorers Handbook), Ring of Theurgy (CArc)
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NiteCyper

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Re: Knowstones and Runestaffs suck
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2010, 06:43:33 PM »
Check these two things. I think at least one of them doesn't require the spell to be on your list... but of course, you won't be able to afford them at level 1...
"...provided that the spell it includes is on his spell list..."
"...as long as that spell also appears on the wielder's class spell list."

Note: 1/day Net of Shadows Runestaff = 200 gp. Beguiler's Starting Gold: 6d4×10 gp (150 gp).


Reply #6. :embarrassed
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 06:49:53 PM by NiteCyper »
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bearsarebrown

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Re: Knowstones and Runestaffs suck
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2010, 06:44:17 PM »
UMD covers it all then.

Agita

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Re: Knowstones and Runestaffs suck
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2010, 06:46:18 PM »
Check these two things. I think at least one of them doesn't require the spell to be on your list... but of course, you won't be able to afford them at level 1...
"...provided that the spell it includes is on his spell list..."
"...as long as that spell also appears on the wielder's class spell list."
He's talking about the two items he mentioned. IIRC, neither of those requires the spell to be on your list, but they both require the spell to be cast into the respective item (pay a NPC). Drakehelm is better, as the Ring expends the spell every time you cast it.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 06:51:41 PM by Agita »
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Knowstones and Runestaffs suck
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2010, 06:50:18 PM »
Check these two things. I think at least one of them doesn't require the spell to be on your list... but of course, you won't be able to afford them at level 1...
"...provided that the spell it includes is on his spell list..."
"...as long as that spell also appears on the wielder's class spell list."


Reply #6. :embarrassed
Well... you can't technically put any spell lower than 3rd into a Runestaff, either, unless your DM makes an exception.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

NiteCyper

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Re: Knowstones and Runestaffs suck
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2010, 06:54:05 PM »
Well... you can't technically put any spell lower than 3rd into a Runestaff, either, unless your DM makes an exception.
There are numerous examples to the contrary. For example, in the example of Steve's sorcerer's Runestaff of speedy travel, the staff provides expeditious retreat (1st), and Sleep is a level 1 spell.
When I first encountered that clause, I recognized it to be a guide-line.

re: UMD: Emulate Class Feature - DC 21?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 07:09:05 PM by NiteCyper »
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nijineko

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Re: Knowstones and Runestaffs suck
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2010, 02:45:48 AM »
Well... you can't technically put any spell lower than 3rd into a Runestaff, either, unless your DM makes an exception.

actually, that was errata-ed out, as i recall. they specifically removed that restriction as some of the sample runestaffs used lower than third level spells. so, it's all fair game.
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Note that CL is explicitly declared to not be UMDable in the FAQ.  The reasoning is that having your CL for a staff is "actually using" the skill, as opposed to just "emulating" it.  Like how you couldn't UMD an artificer's metamagic infusion to get the benefit of it on your wand.

On the other hand, from the PHB, it's entirely possible to UMD things like expending a turn attempt.
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snakeman830

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Note that CL is explicitly declared to not be UMDable in the FAQ.  The reasoning is that having your CL for a staff is "actually using" the skill, as opposed to just "emulating" it.  Like how you couldn't UMD an artificer's metamagic infusion to get the benefit of it on your wand.

On the other hand, from the PHB, it's entirely possible to UMD things like expending a turn attempt.
Yes, but what we're trying to emulate is having a spell on the class list, not a caster level.  It should work.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.