DM can't handle my PC's abilities

[wotmaniac]

I'm currently in a 3.5 game, playing a halfling rogue2/warlock2.
We've only just had our 3rd session, and the DM has already hit my summon swarm invocation with the nerf-bat twice.
The first time was when I summoned a rat swarm to attack an alligator that was attacking us -- when the alligator "retreated" a bit by sinking in to the water a couple of feet, I sent the swarm after it; at which point he refused to let the rats go below the surface (despite the fact that rats - including the swarm kind - have a listed swim speed and in RL have been witnessed diving several meters below surface).  Afterward, I sent him several videos of rats diving in to deep water; at which point he was like "fine, whatever".
The second time was last night, when we were crawling through a 3ft-diameter tunnel, and I wanted to send a bat swarm in front of us for to kinda sweep the tunnel -- at which point he insisted that since the tunnel wasn't perfectly straight, that they would not be able to effectively move the way I wanted (which was simply forward through the tunnel).
In both cases, AFAIC, this was simply his way of keeping me from wrecking his encounters as he envisioned them.

A little background:
this guy knows that I frequent these boards, and thus believes (at least in part) that any character that I bring to the table will be an attempt to munchkinize his game -- and thus judges my actions accordingly.  I have taken great pains to explain to him in great detail that this is far from the truth; quite the contrary -- I actually go way out of my way to make sure that I DON'T do anything that could possible be construed as munchkinism (partly because of his preconceived misconceptions).  I've also spent hours upon hour upon hours working with the DM, trying to develop a character that was acceptable to him that he wouldn't just arbitrarily smack with the nerf-bat along the way.

Normally, I would just walk; however, this is the same group that plays in 2 other games together (all 3 of which are hosted at my house) -- I'm sure the problems of walking away are apparent.
Furthermore, the other players are pretty-much like "he's not f'n with my character, so I don't have much to say".

WHAT DO I DO?!

Thanks.

[Sinfire Titan]

Remember: You have no control over a Summoned Swarm. Even the Invocation version. It's very possible that the swarm turns around and attacks you.


The real problem here is he is unfamiliar with CO's morals. If he were made familiar with our community, he would likely lighten up. Unfortunately, converting a DM to the CO boards is difficult.

[wotmaniac]

Remember: You have no control over a Summoned Swarm. Even the Invocation version. It's very possible that the swarm turns around and attacks you.

How the hell did I miss this?!?!  
alright, now I feel like a real tool.  

The real problem here is he is unfamiliar with CO's morals. If he were made familiar with our community, he would likely lighten up. Unfortunately, converting a DM to the CO boards is difficult.

he absolutely REFUSES to even so much a read a random link that I send to him.

[Sinfire Titan]

he absolutely REFUSES to even so much a read a random link that I send to him.

Therein lies the problem. Do what I did at GitP: Link him to the Comic, and let the forums drag him in eventually. It takes serious time.

[Solo]

I see you have DM troubles. Have you considered destroying him?

[wotmaniac]

I see you have DM troubles. Have you considered destroying him?

In vivid detail 

I guess I can always be thankful that I don't have Kevin_Video's DM 

[Havok4]

I guess I can always be thankful that I don't have Kevin_Video's DM  

As can most of us. The horror stories from him really helps to put things in perspective.

[kevin_video]

I see you have DM troubles. Have you considered destroying him?

In vivid detail 

I guess I can always be thankful that I don't have Kevin_Video's DM 

lol Thanks. BTW, I have two of those now, and one tends to be worse than the other. It's like flipping a coin.

Hopefully you can get the nerf-bat whittled down to a stump.

[mans0011]

I see you have DM troubles. Have you considered destroying him?

In vivid detail 

I guess I can always be thankful that I don't have Kevin_Video's DM 

lol Thanks. BTW, I have two of those now, and one tends to be worse than the other. It's like flipping a coin.

Hopefully you can get the nerf-bat whittled down to a stump.

that's what she said.

And links to awesome horror stories?

[kevin_video]

I see you have DM troubles. Have you considered destroying him?

In vivid detail 

I guess I can always be thankful that I don't have Kevin_Video's DM 

lol Thanks. BTW, I have two of those now, and one tends to be worse than the other. It's like flipping a coin.

Hopefully you can get the nerf-bat whittled down to a stump.

that's what she said.

And links to awesome horror stories?

There really aren't too many links. Just me going off on a tangent in various threads, and other people encouraging me to get it all out so that they can tell the others how bad they could have it. The most current one would be DM 1 http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7208.0 which cancels out this bad thread http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5653.0 and http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7072.msg231426#msg231426
and DM 2 http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6866.0 (and it's getting worse with the 2nd one as well).

[mans0011]

I see you have DM troubles. Have you considered destroying him?

In vivid detail 

I guess I can always be thankful that I don't have Kevin_Video's DM 

lol Thanks. BTW, I have two of those now, and one tends to be worse than the other. It's like flipping a coin.

Hopefully you can get the nerf-bat whittled down to a stump.

that's what she said.

And links to awesome horror stories?

There really aren't too many links. Just me going off on a tangent in various threads, and other people encouraging me to get it all out so that they can tell the others how bad they could have it. The most current one would be DM 1 http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7208.0 which cancels out this bad thread http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5653.0 and http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7072.msg231426#msg231426
and DM 2 http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6866.0 (and it's getting worse with the 2nd one as well).

Wow... just. Wow.

I feel for you.

[bhu]

Kevin you need to bribe that fool with some pizza.

Pizza laced with knockout drugs.

And a camera at the ready.

Maybe a few stuffed animals and such too

[kevin_video]

Kevin you need to bribe that fool with some pizza.

Pizza laced with knockout drugs.

And a camera at the ready.

Maybe a few stuffed animals and such too

I'm hoping that DM #1 will mellow out like DM #2 did after his kid was born. Only another few months.

[Agita]

Kevin you need to bribe that fool with some pizza.

Pizza laced with knockout drugs.

And a camera at the ready.

Maybe a few stuffed animals and such too

I'm hoping that DM #1 will mellow out like DM #2 did after his kid was born. Only another few months.

Define 'mellow out'. People have a sometimes adjust their standards with time.

[kevin_video]

Kevin you need to bribe that fool with some pizza.

Pizza laced with knockout drugs.

And a camera at the ready.

Maybe a few stuffed animals and such too

I'm hoping that DM #1 will mellow out like DM #2 did after his kid was born. Only another few months.

Define 'mellow out'. People have a sometimeas adjust their standards when those standards are unable to be met.

As in DM #2 actually felt bad that he nearly succeeded in a TPK, and searched for variants for our characters for the last four days, so as to it not happening like that again. He's now bringing about the UA variant where instead of -10 you're dead, it's CON+HD death threshold and you're dead. It's not that big of a deal, but it's helping him sleep better at night. Before his son was born, he had no problem with taking us out, and making the party angry with him (in particular the monk player).

[Indigo]

Hi ! I have the same kind of question to ask, but from the opposite point of view (and as it does concern the warlock, I felt I could parasite your topic, if you allow me to).

On the game I've juste started, one of the players is a warlock. He hasn't got the Shatter invocation, but I'm concerned about this eventuality.  Because if he does, that means every guy I'll throw at them will see his weapon shattered right from the start. As they're actually level 2, and won't go that much higher (this is kind of an introduction to the game, to let them discover the mechanics and stuff), no magic weapons for the bad guys ...

I could use monsters with natural attacks only, or have any humanoid they encounter have a few spare weapons ... "Well, that barbarian draws another Two-handed axe from his backpack ... Yes, that's the third one, I know ... He's got a big backpack." And not using humanoids is a bit frustrating, especially when they are supposed to be the main villains in my plans. But on the other hand, just saying "ok, he has no weapon left, you get AoO any time he tries to attack" is just going to make encounters a piece of cake for them, and that doesn't seem a good choice either ...

What could I do ?

[kevin_video]

Oh you're talking about Baleful Utterance. I wouldn't worry that much about it. Just look over the shatter spell. It sunders the weapons, it doesn't shatter it. Unless they're made of crystal. Okay so the d12 greataxe now does d10. No biggie. And even if they were, unless he does it as a targeted attack, and not a 5-ft radius, it doesn't work on anything heavier than 1 lb anyways. So say he targets all the weapons at will, which you can make Will saves on. That's still only one weapon a round. Okay, that's fine. You've still got how many others to do yet. Once everyone sees what the warlock's capable of, he's obviously the biggest threat and needs to get taken down the fastest.

Giving them more than one weapon isn't a bad idea. It's actually standard that you should have one ranged and one melee. However, if you're worried at all about him actually succeeding in destroying all the weapons, go this route. Give them all improved unarmed strike and superior unarmed strike, or make them monks and give them superior unarmed strike as well. I'm not kidding. Put them on the fighters, or monks, or whatever else you've got going.

Have the enemies learn about the PCs abilities, and send a messenger back to the base camp where they can tell their fearless leader all about what they're up against. You could have urban druids with their animal companions attacking, or even give them the improvised weapons feat. Their sword's gone? So what. Now the torch in their pack is a club and does NOT have the penalty. Or maybe that pipe or ladder is useful. Hell, throw in a soulknife and their mind blade. Shatter those all you want, they just keep coming back. There's always ways around everything. Just have to think outside the box.

[Havok4]

Okay so the d12 greataxe now does d10.

Where are you getting this information? A sundered object is destroyed.

[Indigo]

Oh you're talking about Baleful Utterance. I wouldn't worry that much about it. Just look over the shatter spell. It sunders the weapons, it doesn't shatter it. Unless they're made of crystal. Okay so the d12 greataxe now does d10. No biggie. And even if they were, unless he does it as a targeted attack, and not a 5-ft radius, it doesn't work on anything heavier than 1 lb anyways. So say he targets all the weapons at will, which you can make Will saves on.

I thought sunder destroyed the item ... It just reduces the damage ?  Though, I missed the "Will negates (object)" which will definitely help.

That's still only one weapon a round. Okay, that's fine. You've still got how many others to do yet. Once everyone sees what the warlock's capable of, he's obviously the biggest threat and needs to get taken down the fastest.

That's something I overlooked ! Seeing everyone trying to kill him should tell him to use it parsimoniously, as would some guys readying their action to have him make a concentration check.

Giving them more than one weapon isn't a bad idea. It's actually standard that you should have one ranged and one melee. However, if you're worried at all about him actually succeeding in destroying all the weapons, go this route. Give them all improved unarmed strike and superior unarmed strike, or make them monks and give them superior unarmed strike as well. I'm not kidding. Put them on the fighters, or monks, or whatever else you've got going.

Have the enemies learn about the PCs abilities, and send a messenger back to the base camp where they can tell their fearless leader all about what they're up against. You could have urban druids with their animal companions attacking, or even give them the improvised weapons feat. Their sword's gone? So what. Now the torch in their pack is a club and does NOT have the penalty. Or maybe that pipe or ladder is useful. Hell, throw in a soulknife and their mind blade. Shatter those all you want, they just keep coming back. There's always ways around everything. Just have to think outside the box.

The messenger idea is a good one, as the improvised weapon feat which does fit with mercenaries. I'll use those for sure, but I'm afraid that going as  far as creating NPCs so that they don't care about his powers is just going to frustrate him

But thanks for the advice anyway, that should make it more than manageable !

[kevin_video]

Okay so the d12 greataxe now does d10.

Where are you getting this information? A sundered object is destroyed.

But only if you deal enough damage to it. As for the lower damage, it's a variant rule the group found before I joined, and is what we use (we also use it for rust monsters as well instead of instead destruction). If your weapon has a hardness of 10, and 10 HP, and it gets sundered down to only 1, does it really do full damage? Chances are not. So every time it's sundered, and it survives, it goes down a progression. I just figured that it was a variant that everyone used. My mistake.

That's something I overlooked ! Seeing everyone trying to kill him should tell him to use it parsimoniously, as would some guys readying their action to have him make a concentration check.

The messenger idea is a good one, as the improvised weapon feat which does fit with mercenaries. I'll use those for sure, but I'm afraid that going as  far as creating NPCs so that they don't care about his powers is just going to frustrate him

But thanks for the advice anyway, that should make it more than manageable !

Here's another thing that was overlooked. The distance. It's only 25 ft + 5 ft/level. Just sit back and pelt him with arrows from longbows. That's what archers are for anyways. They don't go into melee. If they see their buddies loosing their weapons, guess who their prime target just became.

Creating NPCs that don't need to care about is exactly what you need to make, but not right away. It works perfectly with the messenger idea. Think about it. You're the evil warlord, and one of your snitches has just told you that some guy who specializes in destroying weapons is taking down his group. You're the bad guy, you're going to think of a way to make his ability not work. Why? Because you're EVIL. Who cares that it's going to frustrate him? He was riding high for a while there, enjoying what he thought was him being invincible like Superman, then some guy showed up with a posse (possibly of hired goons, or his own special bodyguard team) to wail on him with kryptonite weapons and bullets. When you challenge a red dragon, you don't fight him with a flaming weapon, or a shocking burst weapon. You use cold. It's dirty, but that's the joys of being EVIL! You don't play fairly. You manipulate, and use their power against them. And if the warlock's evil, then he'll respect that viciousness and underhandedness because he would have done the exact same thing.