Ghost Build

[Havok4]

What exactly is the argument your DM is making that sneak attack only applies once per round? There are no reasons in the rules that sneak attack would not apply to all attacks he made as long as he meets the necessary requirements for each attack.

[Mushroom]

What exactly is the argument your DM is making that sneak attack only applies once per round? There are no reasons in the rules that sneak attack would not apply to all attacks he made as long as he meets the necessary requirements for each attack.

He claims that when in a surprise round, you attack once(due to them being flat footed) and that's it. He somehow thinks taht once you attack the opponent, it becomes un-flat footed.


Back on topic:
Ghostly Grasp is definitely going to be my 1st feat and 3 level of lock sounds very interesting. Any ideas on what to do after MotUH?

[snakeman830]

What exactly is the argument your DM is making that sneak attack only applies once per round? There are no reasons in the rules that sneak attack would not apply to all attacks he made as long as he meets the necessary requirements for each attack.

He claims that when in a surprise round, you attack once(due to them being flat footed) and that's it. He somehow thinks taht once you attack the opponent, it becomes un-flat footed.

Two things:
1. Creatures are explicitly flat-footed until they act for the first time in combat.  You do still only get a standard or a move action in the surprise round, though.
2. Flat-footed is not the requirement.  Denied Dex to AC is.  There are numerous things other than being flat-footed that deny Dex to AC.

[Havok4]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#flatFooted
They do not stop being flat footed until the creature acts, so you can sneak attack to your hearts content until it is the creatures turn and they take an action. Also a flanked creature does not become un-flanked if you attack him so sneak attack would always work against a flanked creature. Also the key is dex to ac as snakeman830 noted.
A good class for after the MotUH levels might be binder, they get a lot of bonuses for having a high charisma. Also if you can get the sneak attack issue worked out some prestige class that progresses sneak attack might be a good idea.

[Mushroom]

What exactly is the argument your DM is making that sneak attack only applies once per round? There are no reasons in the rules that sneak attack would not apply to all attacks he made as long as he meets the necessary requirements for each attack.

He claims that when in a surprise round, you attack once(due to them being flat footed) and that's it. He somehow thinks taht once you attack the opponent, it becomes un-flat footed.

Two things:
1. Creatures are explicitly flat-footed until they act for the first time in combat.  You do still only get a standard or a move action in the surprise round, though.
2. Flat-footed is not the requirement.  Denied Dex to AC is.  There are numerous things other than being flat-footed that deny Dex to AC.

I'll be sure to bring it up with my group

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#flatFooted
They do not stop being flat footed until the creature acts, so you can sneak attack to your hearts content until it is the creatures turn and they take an action. Also a flanked creature does not become un-flanked if you attack him so sneak attack would always work against a flanked creature. Also the key is dex to ac as snakeman830 noted.
A good class for after the MotUH levels might be binder, they get a lot of bonuses for having a high charisma. Also if you can get the sneak attack issue worked out some prestige class that progresses sneak attack might be a good idea.

Hmm
Ghost 5/Lock3/MotUH5/Binder 7?

Would it be better to drop the lock levels for more Binder?

[Havok4]

Possibly, you would probably be better off dropping 2 of the levels of the ghost savage progression. If you do that and replace the warlock with binder levels and Knight of the Sacred Seal levels you would end up being a Ghost 3/ Binder 7/MotUH 5/ KotSS 5. This gives you an effective binder level of 12, just enough to get 6th level vestiges. You also get all the nice abilities of a kotss and binder.

[snakeman830]

Possibly, you would probably be better off dropping 2 of the levels of the ghost savage progression. If you do that and replace the warlock with binder levels and Knight of the Sacred Seal levels you would end up being a Ghost 3/ Binder 7/MotUH 5/ KotSS 5. This gives you an effective binder level of 12, just enough to get 6th level vestiges. You also get all the nice abilities of a kotss and binder.

Zercyll time!  Why defend your lovely lady when you can summon up alien beasts to do it for you?  It would also be nigh-impossible to be snuck up on, since you get Mindsight and...

[duncandun]

If you are using ghostly grasp to say, use corporeal equipment. What happens when you de-manifest? Does it all clatter to the ground?

Also quicken manifestation might be nice.

[Mushroom]

Just talked to my DM, due to being in a custom setting, binder is a no go(I really liked the whole summon aliens thing) and I do indeed gain HD when taking ghost levels. I also have to take a class level first and I switch fly with rejuvenation on the progression.



Damn

[Hijax]

If you are using ghostly grasp to say, use corporeal equipment. What happens when you de-manifest? Does it all clatter to the ground?

"...But when they searched the mysterious enchanter's corpse, they found his armor empty"

[Senevri]

He claims that when in a surprise round, you attack once(due to them being flat footed) and that's it. He somehow thinks taht once you attack the opponent, it becomes un-flat footed.

That is correct. Well, not the un-flatfooted part. You only get a single standard action in surprise round, so unless you can get multiple hits as a standard action, you can only attack once, at best.

*edit* Now, the FIRST round, BEFORE they act, however...

Re: Multiple attacks. Rules of the Game archive:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040302a

Personally I think all the words can get in the way of understanding. It is actually spelled out in the SRD, too, when it's described in Rogue's section.

IF ATTACK AND:
- Target denied dexterity bonus (subtly a different thing than flat-footed) OR
- Rogue flanks target
THEN: EXTRA DAMAGE.

there's some further ruling related to the amount of extra damage - such as it being zero, but that's not here nor there in determining if sneak attack happens.

[gorfnad]

And for other sneak attack questions you group may have these links may be of help
Rules of the Game: All About Sneak Attacks Part 1 http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040217a
Rules of the Game: All About Sneak Attacks Part 2 http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040224a
Rules of the Game: All About Sneak Attacks Part 3 http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040302a
Rules of the Game: All About Sneak Attacks Part 4 http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040309a

Also Ghostwalk has some interesting feats for ghosts that may be worth looking into.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

They really aren't all that good.