Author Topic: Dwarf Earth Monk PrC Feedback request [updated with actual class info]  (Read 2322 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

archangel.arcanis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2938
    • Email
Just doing strike through for posterity sake. 2nd post has a rough draft of the class. Looking for comments on quality, balance, theme, etc... Any feedback would be appreciated.

original post starts here:
Ok being our groups resident Rules Lawyer (C) i have been granted permission to write my own PrC for my character who doesn't seem to have anywhere to go once i finish my current one.

Here is the general layout of my current character:
Dwarf Monk6/Fist of the Forest
He has been focused on flurry of blows and using knockdown and improved trip to generate damage.
Has Holy strike alt. class feature from complete champ.
Is the party tank with the highest AC and most hit points, secondary on scouting.

Here is the flavor i'm looking for:
Must be monk like in some way.
Trying to combine the typical dwarf cultural ideas with natural ideas as represented by FoF.
I would like to keep it earth based with inspiration from Earth Dreamer (RoS) and Deepstone Sentinel (ToB).

Some abilities i think should be included:
1) Advance unarmed damage, fast movement, and flurry of blows
2) Grant a burrow speed
3) Able to see through earth and stone as the ED class
4) Ability to create difficult terrain and/or pillars/walls of stone as per DS
5) Possibly some spell like abilities (earthquake, soften earth, etc..)
6) Possibly transformation and/or gaining properties of an earth elemental.
7) Damage reduction that is gained and improves with class level.
8) Natural armor improvement.

The basics:
10 levels
3/4 Bab
d10 or d12 HD. not sure which yet, will likely be determined once the rest is fleshed out.
All good saves or possibly weak Ref.
4 or 6 skill points per level depending on how many class skills.


Now the real questions:
Is there anything that should be dropped?
Anything that i should have included and didn't?
When to put what abilities?
What kind of restrictions to put on the class?
What should the Pre-Reqs be?


Once i get some feed back on what should be included i'll try and get something more complete up. Consider this the brainstorming portion of the class design.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2010, 12:29:55 PM by archangel.arcanis »
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

archangel.arcanis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2938
    • Email
Re: Need help fleshing out PrC to use
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2010, 06:06:26 PM »
ok slow day at work so i got to work on this some. Here is what I have as my rough draft:

Granite Guardian

Fluff.

Prerequisites:
Race: Dwarf
Skills: Kn. (Planes) 4 ranks, Kn (Religion) 8 ranks
Language: Terran
Feat: Power Attack
Class Features: Flurry of Blows

HD: d10

Class Skills:
Balance, Concentration, Craft, Heal, Hide, Kn (Planes, Religion), Listen, Move Silently, Profession, Sense Motive, & Spot.

Skill Points: 4 + Int mod per level

Code: [Select]
lvl BaB Ft Ref Will Special
1 0 2 0 2 Monk Abilities, Stone Protection +1
2 1 3 0 3 Earth Mother's Warding (5'), Stone Bones (2/A)
3 2 3 1 3 Stone Protection +2, Stone Shape
4 3 4 1 4 Earth Sight (RoS 111), Stone Bones (4/A)
5 3 4 1 4 Burrow, Stone Protection +3
6 4 5 2 5 Earth Mother's Warding (10'), Stone Bones (6/A)
7 5 5 2 5 Stone Protection +4, Love of the Mother
8 6 6 2 6 Bones of the Earth (PH2 104), Stone Bones (8/A)
9 6 6 3 6 Stone Protection +5, Stubborn as a Rock
10 7 7 3 7 Earth Glide, Earth Mother's Warding (15'), Stone Bones (10/A)

Monk Abilities:
Your Class level is added to your monk level to determine your effective monk level for your unarmed damage, fast movement, and flurry of blows abilities.

Stone Protection (EX):
At 1st level and every odd class level there after your Natural Armor improves by 1.

Earth Mother's Warding (SU):
An area around your is considered difficult terrain, you and your allies are unaffected by this. This area is always centered on you and has a radius listed (5' at 2nd levl, 10' at 6th, and 15' at 10th)

Stone Bones (EX):
At 2nd level you gain DR of 2/Adamantine and it improves by 2 every even class level after that.

Stone Shape (SP):
At level 3 you gain the ability to use the Stone Shape spell as a spell like ability at will. Casterlevel is your total character level

Burrow (EX):
Gained at 5th level move at up to 1/2 full ground speed, as the monster ability. Upgrades to earth glide at level 10. As per Earth elemental, full ground movement speed.

Love of the Mother (Su):
When Burrowing or Earth gliding you heal 1d12/level of Granite Guardian for each full round you spend Burrowing/Gliding.

Bones of the Earth (SP):
At level 8 you learn how to use the Bones of the Earth spell as a spell like ability usable at will. Caster level is your total character level.

Stubborn as a Rock (Su):
Due to your inherent resistance to magic you may choose to roll a saving throw vs a spell or spell like ability that doesn't normally allow for one. You must be a target of the spell, thus you don't get a save vs Magic Weapon spell even if you are struck with a weapon under its effects. The DM should decide which save should be rolled and what the effect would be, but as a guideline if it deals HP damage it should be a Reflex save, if it deals ability score damage it should be a Fort save, if it exerts influence it should be a Will save, if it deals damage in any way it should be for 1/2, and should only negate the effect entirely if it is either all or nothing type of effect.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 02:13:45 PM by archangel.arcanis »
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

The_Mad_Linguist

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8780
  • Simulated Thing
Quote

Earth Mother's Warding (SU):
An area around your is considered difficult terrain. This area is always centered on you and has a radius listed (5' at 2nd levl, 10' at 6th, and 15' at 10th)
Way to screw over your fellow party members.
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

archangel.arcanis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2938
    • Email
Quote

Earth Mother's Warding (SU):
An area around your is considered difficult terrain. This area is always centered on you and has a radius listed (5' at 2nd levl, 10' at 6th, and 15' at 10th)
Way to screw over your fellow party members.

Fixed that oversight. Anything else?
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 7139
At first glance, it looks pretty cool.  I wouldn't call it over powered, but it's pretty nice for the dwarf/monk theme.

Do you want to add in any inherent resistance to magic?  SR is one way to do it.  A flat bonus to saves vs spells/SLAs could be pretty nice and simple too.  That's one of those things both dwarves and monks do (resist magic, that is).

Another thing monks have problems with is reach.  Perhaps you'd let them use stone weapons and gain the benefits of flurry/unarmed damage?  Of course, I can't think of many good reach weapons that could be made of stone.  Just rambling here, now, really...
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

archangel.arcanis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2938
    • Email
Thanks for the suggestions RobbyPants I hadn't thought about magic resistance as a theme. The only other ability i had in mind but didn't know how to write up was based on a greek myth where the guy could heal himself by rubbing dirt on the wound.

Back to your point about magic resistance. I don't like how SR is always done, since it affects allies' spells and is normally too low to make an enemy caster bat an eye. If i gave them a bonus vs spells then they would get targeted with no save spells, just like now. So i'm not sure what the best way to go about giving them this is.

I'm also not worried about reach as they can use Mole tactics and have tumble with a high speed. They should be able to get in and start pounding without provoking an AoO. The class should have a fair ability to isolate an enemy and beat it to death. But I'll see what else i can add.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 7139
Good point about the burrowing/earth glide.  Reach probably doesn't matter so much.

As for using dirt to heal, how are you thinking about limiting it?  Do you care if it's unlimited?  If not, pretty much every member of this PrC will carry a bag of dirt with them and always be at full HP.  If you do care, you'll have to limit it to X per day.

If you want the ability to be usable in combat, it will have to be useful enough to matter.  It makes sense to provoke an AoO, but it makes it less useful.  Also, would earth glide/burrowing count as "rubbing dirt"?  That would be pretty handy, really.

As for how much to heal, you have a tough decision as to base it on character level or class level.  Basing it on character level makes the ability more dippable, unless you put it at 3rd or 4th level, or later.  Basing it on class level makes it pathetically weak at low levels.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

archangel.arcanis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2938
    • Email
I just feel like they should be fairly self sufficient. Perhaps limit it to only while burrowing/earth gliding. so it can be used in combat to heal in an emergency but that wouldn't be the primary purpose. Perhaps class level d12 per full round burrowing? That would allow you to get a fair boost in HP during a fight but takes you out of it for a full round. So it becomes a tactical call, help your party or boost your HP. I think there are already so many ways to be at full health between fights that this being unlimited won't hurt at all. I also kinda wanted to get use out of the red headed step die d12. Looking at lvl 7 for it though since that is the first level that doesn't grant or progress 2 abilities. Definitely takes it out of the dipping range but should provide enough kick to make you at least consider it.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 7139
d12 could work.  I was going to suggest 2d6 anyway, so it's roughly in line.

Of course, there's a reason I don't use d12's:  they never stop rolling. :p
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

archangel.arcanis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2938
    • Email
d12 could work.  I was going to suggest 2d6 anyway, so it's roughly in line.

Of course, there's a reason I don't use d12's:  they never stop rolling. :p

We tend to use plastic serving trays to roll in. They are about 18" across and have 1" sides. Frequently we get d20s that will hit the side pop up and start spinning on a point. My personal record was over a minute of it spinning there, and it was awesome to wait and see a 20 pop up.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 7139
Re: Dwarf Earth Monk PrC Feedback request [updated with actual class info]
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2010, 09:14:05 AM »
I should break down and do that.  Lately, I tend to play in a recliner and often roll on a book on my lap, so half the time I'm bending down to pick dice up off the floor.  The table is almost entirely taken up by the map, so I'm always hesitant to roll on it, lest I knock over the minis.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

archangel.arcanis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2938
    • Email
Re: Dwarf Earth Monk PrC Feedback request [updated with actual class info]
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2010, 02:17:28 PM »
Added class name: Granite Guardian

Added self heal ability: Love of the Mother at lvl 7

Added magic resistance ability: Stubborn as a Rock at lvl 9

Let me know what you think about these 2 new abilities especially Stubborn as a Rock since that is a radically different ability than any others i've seen used in classes before. I just wanted to make it something different, but put it far out of reach of a dipper. I also feel like Earth Glide is enough of an incentive to motivate people to take that last level rather than looking at this as the capstone, despite it definitely being probably the strongest ability listed.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren