Choosing spells known

[PhaedrusXY]

Edit/update: Gained a couple of levels, and am trying to pick 6th level spells known. Most of them seem to suck. I am getting Contingency 1x on a Runestaff, as I think that will be plenty enough. I thought about Disintegrate, but I took Telekinesis and Shrink Item, so I won't be needing it for damage... and we have an uber-charger who I'm sure can break shit very well if we need to destroy an object. Here is a link to the most recent character sheet, which I'm still working on updating. I'm also trying to pick a new feat to gain by trading my last racial one out with the DCFS. I choose Quicken SLA (Benign Transposition) for my 9th level feat.

Original
[spoiler]I'm working on a sorcerer build and am mostly looking for help trying to fill in his spells known list. I'm going for "well rounded", except that I'm not picking many defensive spells. The character will be 7th level but cast as an 11th level sorcerer (go-go kobold cheese), and will be able to use Magic Jar at will as a Supernatural ability and won't have a body of his own, so I'm not too worried about things that just do hit point damage. (Yeah, I know. Don't complain, ok?) Here is what I have so far.

Kyxthylanxythys, the ghost dragon (Kyx for short, real name forgotten)

Magic-blooded venerable dragon-wrought desert kobold white dragonspawn
Sorcerer 6/Stranger with the Burning Eyes 1

Ability Scores:
[spoiler]Cha 22 (16+3age+1level+2race)
Int 19 (16+3age)
Wis 13 (14-4race+3age)
Str 2 (6-4race)
Dex 16 (12+4race)
Con 15 (13+2race)

starting stats: 16, 16, 13, 13, 12, 6[/spoiler]

Hit dice: 7d4+14-3 (39 HP)
BAB: +4; Grapple varies with form
Saves (base): Fort +? (2), Ref +? (2), Will +9 (7)

Skills (60 pts):
[spoiler]Know (Religion) +13 (9r+4int)
Know (Arcana) +11 (5ranks+2insight+4int)
Know (Planes) +9 (5r+4int)
Know (Dungeon) +5 (1cc+4int)
Know (Nature) +5 (1cc+4int)
Know (Local) +5 (1cc+4int)
Concentration +? (9r+?con)
Spellcraft +11 (+13 to decipher scrolls)(5r+4int+2syn)
Use Magic Device +13 (+15 w/scrolls)(7r+6cha)
Hide +? (6r+2race+?dex+?size)
Bluff +11 (5r+6cha)
Diplomacy +8 (0r+2syn+6cha)[/spoiler]

Skill progression:
[spoiler]1st (24 ranks): K:Arc 4, Conc 4, SC 4, Bluff 4, UMD 1cc, K: Nat 1cc, K:Loc 1cc, K:Dun 1cc
2nd (6): Conc +1 (5), SC +1 (5), K:Ar +1(5), Bluff +1 (5), Collector of Stories (2)
3rd (6): K: Rel 6
4th (6): UMD +6 (7)
5th (6): K:Pl 5, Conc +1(6)
6th (6): K:Rel +3(9), Con +3(9)
7th (6): Hide 6[/spoiler]

Skill Tricks: Collector of Stories: +5 on knowledge checks to ID creatures

ACFs:
[spoiler]Divine Companion: Stores up to my CL in spell levels. Can release them to heal me for 1d6/level (std action), or to provide a protective shield (swift action, +X Deflection to AC and Resistance to saves, where X is the number of spell levels released, lasts 1 rnd/lvl)

Dragonblood Sorcerer Substitution Levels (RDr, p 107): lose craft and profession, gain UMD
4th level: +2 insight on Know: Arcana, Spell-Like Ability (took Wall of Ice as a SLA 3xday. Lost a spell per day at 4th and 5th. CL = sorc level. Next level I will upgrade this to Teleport.)

Planar Sorcerer  (PlH, p35): add knowledge: the planes to class list
5th level: Force Charged Energy (half energy damage of spells is force damage, only works on spells 1 level below max), lose a 2nd level spell known .[/spoiler]

Feats: Dragonwrought (White)(flaw), Silent Spell (flaw), Still Spell (1), Knowledge Devotion (to get Knowledge: Religion, and as a buff)(3), Draconic Reservoir (6), Versatile Spellcaster (DCFS)

To buy later: Sculpt and Extend Spell (Metamagic Storm or Lesser MM Rod),Rainbow Falls (2000 gp, triple duration on one transmutation per day)

Other notes
[spoiler]+7 NA and winged flight (doesn't matter, neither do his physical stats... since his body was destroyed long ago)

Draconic Rite of Passage (Benign Transposition 3xday as SLA with Draconic Reservoir)

Loredrake + Greater Draconic Rite + Dragonspawn (bought off LA) = +4 CLs. So at level 6, he'll have CL 10 (and 5th level spells), allowing him to enter the PrC at 7th.

*For future reference: Rejkar from MM3 has Fabricate at-will. 5 HD outsider.[/spoiler]

Spells known (per day) (casts as an 11th level sorcerer, DC 10+6+level)
[spoiler]0th (6): Detect Magic, No Light, Mage Hand, Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation, Launch Item, Caltrops, Ghost Sound, Message
1st (8): Silent Image, Nerveskitter, Grease, Lesser Orb of Acid, Mage Armor (Benign Transposition 3x day as SLA)
2nd (8): Glitterdust, Alter Self, Toothed Tentacle, Kelgore's Grave Mist, (Rope Trick)
3rd (7): Dispel Magic, Shrink Item, Shatterfloor, Haste, (Anticipate Teleport, Magic Circle vs. Evil)
4th (6): Evard's Black Tentacles, Greater Mirror Image, (Dimensional Anchor), (Wall of Ice 3xday as SLA)
5th (4): Magic Jar, Teleport, (Dragonsight)
6th (0): (Planar Binding)

Non-core Spell Descriptions
[spoiler]No Light (BoVD): 20' radius area of magical darkness that creatures with darkvision can see through.
Launch Item: "Throw" fine-sized item up to medium range with no range penalty (a mace for a tiny creature, which weighs 1 lb, would be a fine object. So his shrunken boulders and blobs of lava should be "launchable").
Caltrops: Creates caltrops in 5 squares within short range, and they get a +4 to hit (ignores armor, shield, deflection, +2 AC if wearing shoes or armor).
Nerveskitter (SC): Immediate action +5 to initiative
Benign Transposition (SC): Two allies within medium range trade places
Lesser Orb of Acid (SC): 5d8 acid damage, short range.
Anticipate Teleportation (SC): 24 hr duration, range touch, anyone teleporting into a 5'/level radius is delayed 1 round, and target knows they're coming
Shatterfloor (SC): medium range, 15' radius, 1d4 sonic/lvl and area becomes difficult terrain
Kelgore's Grave Mist(PHB2): medium range, 20' radius, 20' high cloud does 1d6 cold/rnd and fatigues. No save, SR to resist fatigue. Lasts 1 rnd/lvl.
Greater Mirror Image(PHB2): As Mirror Image, but immediate action to cast and gain 1 image per round (to a max of 8)[/spoiler][/spoiler]

Equipment (18900/19000 wbl):
[spoiler]

• Spell Component Pouch (also serves as his "token" which means that it will travel with him auto-magically when he changes bodies)
• Used the Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle (DCFS) to trade the kobold racial light pick proficiency for Versatile Spellcaster. DCFS costs 250 XP per casting, x5 for gp, so 2500 plus the cost of the spell (1200 each). So in total, 4900 gp per feat gained in this way.
• Summon divine companion ritual (100 gp)
• a small bell and hammer (focus for shatterfloor... stupid spell foci... this will be KEPT IN MY COMPONENT POUCH)(10gp)

Least weapon crystal of revelation (MiC, 400 gp)(I'll probably give this to someone else)

• ten boulders (3,600 lbs each), shrunken down to <1 lb each (these are 22 cubic feet when unshrunk, so a bit under 3 feet in diameter)
• a large stone cone that is four inches thick, 6 feet across at the bottom, and 10 feet tall, which he shrinks and wears as a pointy. cloth wizard's hat. It weighs 3600 lbs when unshrunk, has 60 hit points per 5' section and hardness 8. He "crafted" this himself with judicious use of Lesser Orbs of Acid.
• 40,000 lbs of lava... shrunk down into eleven 1 lb blocks with the consistency of cloth (should only be a bit bigger than the solid rock)
• The Walking Stick (custom Runestaff, appropriately sized for a small wielder)
  This old, gnarled staff looks like a plain walking stick. It contains several spells to insure that its owner and any companions or equipment traveling with him arrive safely at their destination, including the ability to call a powerful bodyguard to protect them on the way.
  
  It contains the following spells, each useable a number of times noted below:
  3rd: Anticipate Teleportation, Magic Circle vs. Evil (1xday each, 3x3x2x100=1800)
  4th: Dimensional Anchor (1xday, 4x4x100=1600)
  5th: Dragonsight (1xday, 5x5x100=2500)
  6th: Planar Binding (1xday, 6x6x200=7200)
  Total cost: 13,500 gp

Math on cone:
[spoiler]Volume of a cone is 1/3 pi r^2 h
http://math.about.com/od/formulas/ss/surfaceareavol_2.htm

So if we want our cone to be 6 feet across and 10 feet tall,

0.33*pi* 3^2 * 10 ~ 93 cubic feet

Subtract the volume of the inner cone, which is:

0.33*pi*2.66^2*9.66 ~ 70 cubic feet

So the volume of our 4 inch thick, 6 feet across, and 10 feet tall cone is about 23 cubic feet. We can shrink up to 22 cubic feet with Shrink Item, so this is close enough.

I think the width of the cone decreases linearly with height, starting at the width of the base and decreasing to zero at the top (more or less). So the width at 6 feet would be simply 0.6*6=3. Subtracting out the 8 inches for the thickness of the walls still leaves 22.33 feet of width on the inside. So the interior is easily large enough to accommodate an average sized human male standing upright

A 4 inch thick wall of stone has 60 hit points per 5' section, and a hardness of 8.[/spoiler]
[/spoiler]

Wish list: I'd like to get another runestaff to "craft" things on my days off. I'd probably stick Major Creation, Wall of Iron, Wall of Stone, and Fabricate in there. I can't think of another spell, since I've got Shrink Item on my spell list already.

Backstory

[Anklebite]

for the third level slot: haste, slow, shrink item are all good.

for the 5th level slot: telekinesis. allow me to say it before TML does. booyah.

[Solo]

Loose the fireball, replace with Great Thunderclap.

[Rebel7284]

Arcane Fusion.  And yeah, fireball is inefficient

[Tonymitsu]

3rd Level also has Manyjaws, for 1d6 of damage per level (caps at 10), per round of concentration (max of three), spread however I want to whatever farkin targets I want on the battlefield of Reflex save for half force damage.  Spc, pg 138.  Nasty little spell, in practice it's a lot better than it sounds.

There's a lot of other stuff like Dimension Step, Bands of Steel, and Legion of Sentinels that's good but situational and thus I hesitate to suggest to a sorcerer.



5th level:

Spell Theft

It's like Reaving Dispel... except you identify the buffs in place automatically, instead of making a Spellcraft check... and your Dispel Check caps at +15 instead of +20... and it's 5th level instead of 9th.

What's not to like?  Complete Scoundrel, pg 104



But yeah as long as you're considering Wall of Ice for 4th level.  I'd forget that and go with Wall of Stone at 5th instead.

Spend the 4th on something like:
Bloodstar (SpC, 34).  Every time a foe you designate takes damage from anything, he makes a Fort save or loses 1 point of Con.  If you have two weapon fighting characters in your group (or have a way to summon things like dire tigers) things are going to drop stupidly fast.

or Burning Blood (SpC, 40).  Fort save every round for 1 round/level or they take 1d8 Acid, 1d8 Fire and they can only take a move action.  oh, and saving once doesn't end the effect.  They have to save every round for the duration.


or Celerity... nuff said....

or Polymorph... more than nuff said....



oh yeah, I'd call that staff the Runestaff of Wanderer...  just cause there's lot of traveling related things in it....

[ninjarabbit]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7229.0 Here's my general guide for picking sorcerer spells, it's not going to tell you what spells to pick but rather try to create a thought process for you.


Anyways:
-Lose fireball, lose mirror image, lose ray of enfeeblement, lose wall of ice, add grease, add scorching ray I hope you have split ray), add stinking cloud, add haste, add greater mirror image, add summon monster V

[Anklebite]

solo posted in this thread. his sig has his awesome guide to just this, if I recall.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Can I suggest you replace fireball with resonating bolt?  I like spells that ignore hardness.

[Negative Zero]

Man, you love that Stranger with the Burning Eyes, don't you?

Why do you have Magic Jar as a spell known if you have it from that PrC?
...Or does it give you that as a spell known for free?

[Agita]

Man, you love that Stranger with the Burning Eyes, don't you?

Why do you have Magic Jar as a spell known if you have it from that PrC?
...Or does it give you that as a spell known for free?

It's a prerequisite.

[PhaedrusXY]

Yeah, yeah I know there are probably more optimal spells than Fireball, but there are none more fun than Fireball. And it is actually quite good at dishing out damage to large numbers of grouped and somewhat weak enemies, which frankly is a common occurrence in games. So yeah...

3rd Level also has Manyjaws, for 1d6 of damage per level (caps at 10), per round of concentration (max of three), spread however I want to whatever farkin targets I want on the battlefield of Reflex save for half force damage.  Spc, pg 138.  Nasty little spell, in practice it's a lot better than it sounds.

Yeah, but it doesn't do the full 10d6 to every target. It is a decent spell, but better for a single target than for massed enemies. I have Toothed Tentacle, which is kind of like a 2nd level Manyjaws except that you have to make 3 attack rolls, which means that I get to apply Knowledge Devotion to every one of them.

5th level:

Spell Theft

It's like Reaving Dispel... except you identify the buffs in place automatically, instead of making a Spellcraft check... and your Dispel Check caps at +15 instead of +20... and it's 5th level instead of 9th.

What's not to like?  Complete Scoundrel, pg 104

Hmm... yeah, that is a very good dispel, but for 5th level it should be. I'm not sure if it is worth it at the moment, since that's my max spell level, and I don't think I want to specialize in debuffing. If/when we level up, I might pick this up later.

But yeah as long as you're considering Wall of Ice for 4th level.  I'd forget that and go with Wall of Stone at 5th instead.

Wall of Stone has to be anchored into pre-existing stone. I can throw up a Wall of Ice wherever I want. And it's lower level. Neither of them are going to stop most enemies permanently, so as far as a speed bump, I'd rather have one that I can use anywhere than one that I can only use on stone surfaces.

Spend the 4th on something like:
or Celerity... nuff said....

or Polymorph... more than nuff said....

I considered those, but with my "body thief" abilities, Polymorph will be a bit redundant (unless I'm casting it on someone else). I will probably pick up Celerity later, but not for now I think.

oh yeah, I'd call that staff the Runestaff of Wanderer...  just cause there's lot of traveling related things in it....

Heh, I just finished a more detailed write-up of it, and called it "The Walking Stick" for the same reason (lots of traveling abilities).

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7229.0 Here's my general guide for picking sorcerer spells, it's not going to tell you what spells to pick but rather try to create a thought process for you.


Anyways:
-Lose fireball, lose mirror image, lose ray of enfeeblement, lose wall of ice, add grease, add scorching ray I hope you have split ray), add stinking cloud, add haste, add greater mirror image, add summon monster V

I rather like Ray of Enfeeblement. More than Grease. It always works, whereas in my experience, many enemies just ignore grease. Besides, I have lots of area crowd control spells already. I don't have many single target debuffs, and that is one of my favorites for its level.

I will add Haste. I'll check out Greater Mirror Image and SMV, too. I forget what level the first is, and what exactly the second gets you. I'm not planning on persisting anything though, so is Greater Mirror Image still worth its level?

Man, you love that Stranger with the Burning Eyes, don't you?

Yes... yes I do. The game with my current one in it got canceled, and I had always wondered what it would be like to play one "as intended", so...

[bearsarebrown]

Greater Mirror Image is an immediate action to cast, so, yes.

[ninjarabbit]

GMI also gets you 1 more image/round, that combined with being an immediate action spell makes if flat out superior to regular mirror image.

[PhaedrusXY]

GMI also gets you 1 more image/round, that combined with being an immediate action spell makes if flat out superior to regular mirror image.

I would hope so, seeing that it is two levels higher. I mean, it has to compete with Evard's BT, Wall spells, and Solid Fog. I am debating what to replace with it, and having a hard time deciding.

If this were for a "normal" mage, I'd probably take it, but since I have Magic Jar at will, and don't really care that much if whatever body I'm currently in is destroyed, I don't think it is worth a 4th level spell known slot to protect it.

[PhaedrusXY]

The build is more or less finished. I'll edit the final version into the first post, but I'm actually beginning to wonder if the Stranger with the Burning Eyes PrC is worth the cost to get into it. I burned three feats (Silent and Still Spell, and Knowledge Devotion) that I could have used for something awesome like Versatile Spellcaster, and Extend and Sculpt Spell. I would also feel very free to dump Eschew Materials, and spend that 4900 gp on something besides Embrace/Shun the Dark Chaos, if I weren't planning on switching bodies all the time. Extend + Versatile would allow me to make my runestaff a bit cheaper, by reducing all the buffs to one use per day, and then extending them by using two slots. I'd of course be easier to kill, and I'd lose a potent attack form, but overall I'd probably be more useful to the party. Not to mention the opportunity cost of not going into a different PrC.

Hmm... I'm going to stick with it for now, as I do love the flavor of the class and it certainly has some benefits, but the exercise of building it and then comparing it to what I could have built instead is kind of an eye-opener. Of course, if we gain levels the PrC becomes more valuable, especially once you reach the point where you can access the host body's feats, but so would other PrCs that I could have entered instead.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Why not staple your spell component pouch to your token?

[PhaedrusXY]

Why not staple your spell component pouch to your token?

Hmm... that's an interesting idea... I'll ask Kuro about that. I could see ruling that it still wouldn't travel with it.

[CantripN]

Your pricing on the Runestaff is off. Cost is Level Squared x 400 for 3/day. 2/day is x 300, 1/day is x 200. Those are the costs for the highest level spell (only for one of the spells, even if you have 5 9th level spells). The other spells are at x200/x150/x100.

Also, STR is 8 Base before Racial, not 6.

As for spells, I suggest these changes:

1st (8): Silent Image, Ray of Clumsiness, Nerveskitter, Benign Transposition, Horde Gullet
2nd (8): Glitterdust, Toothed Tentacle, Whispercast, Escalating Enfeeblement, Invisibility, See Invisibility
3rd (8): Dispel Magic, Dragonskin, Fireball, Haste, Heart of Water, Anticipate Teleportation
4th (7): Evard's Black Tentacles, Greater Mirror Image, Ruin Delver's Fortune
5th (5): Magic Jar, Telekinesis, Flight of the Dragon, Teleport

I'd also consider upgrading Toothed Tentacle to the 4th level version. It's worth it. Also, I personally dislike Black Tentacles, as far too many people just ignore them, and they bother the party nearly as much.

[PhaedrusXY]

Your pricing on the Runestaff is off. Cost is Level Squared x 400 for 3/day. 2/day is x 300, 1/day is x 200. Those are the costs for the highest level spell (only for one of the spells, even if you have 5 9th level spells). The other spells are at x200/x150/x100.

Hmm... I'll look at that again. I figured that if you reduced the uses per day by 2/3rds, you'd just multiply the cost by that fraction also, as with wondrous items.

Also, STR is 8 Base before Racial, not 6.

No, those are rolled stats. It's a 6.

As for spells, I suggest these changes:

1st (8): Silent Image, Ray of Clumsiness, Nerveskitter, Benign Transposition, Horde Gullet
2nd (8): Glitterdust, Toothed Tentacle, Whispercast, Escalating Enfeeblement, Invisibility, See Invisibility
3rd (8): Dispel Magic, Dragonskin, Fireball, Haste, Heart of Water, Anticipate Teleportation
4th (7): Evard's Black Tentacles, Greater Mirror Image, Ruin Delver's Fortune
5th (5): Magic Jar, Telekinesis, Flight of the Dragon, Teleport

I'd also consider upgrading Toothed Tentacle to the 4th level version. It's worth it. Also, I personally dislike Black Tentacles, as far too many people just ignore them, and they bother the party nearly as much.

Thanks for the suggestions. I want Toothed Tentacle for a low level spell that I can use to do decent damage. I don't expect to be the main damage dealer. It's just there for when I want to conserve spell slots but still contribute. Burning a 4th level spell slot is too expensive for that. Also, I remember not thinking the upgrade was worth two spell levels. And I had this argument with someone before, maybe even you.

I'll check out the other suggestions. I thought Ruin Delver's Fortune was bard only, though...

Edit: Whispercast gives you Silent and Still spell temporarily. Those are prereqs. I didn't take them because I want to use them.

Escalating Enfeeblement... Hmm... I guess this would stack with the str penalty from fatigue caused by Kelgore's Grave Mist, wouldn't it? 1d10+7 is a pretty nasty hit to Str... and there is no save on either... But it is two spells known and cast... Hmm... Not sure if that's worth the resource investment. It's only an average of 2 better than Ray of Enfeeblement + Kelgore's, after all.

[CantripN]