Author Topic: Differentiating wizards and sorcerers  (Read 1692 times)

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Prime32

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Differentiating wizards and sorcerers
« on: February 26, 2010, 09:39:06 PM »
As it stands, there isn't a lot of difference between wizards and sorcerers. Sure, I know, they're Core, and they've differentiated caster classes since then, but still...


Look at the fluff. Wizards learn to wield magic, sorcerers develop magical powers naturally, usually due to odd ancestry.

In my view this means that wizards, having a greater understanding of magic, can learn to manipulate it far better than a sorcerer can. However, in the end magic will always be something alien to them, and they will never be able to match a sorcerer in raw power. If both can shoot fire from their hands, both a wizard and a sorcerer could conceivably learn to shape the fire into a sword. The wizard would probably create a detailed replica of a mundane longsword from some learned pattern, while the sorcerer ends up with a giant greatsword-shaped mass of flames. However, only a wizard could manipulate magic at such a fundamental level that he could shoot ice from his hands instead. The sorcerer can shoot fire because the blood of red dragons flows through his veins - channeling the burning power of red dragons to shoot ice would be weird.

[spoiler]A good example is Kekkaishi - it has two main characters who have the same basic power (creating cube-shaped forcefields which can be imploded on enemies) but use it very differently. Yoshimori has plenty of stamina and power, but poor accuracy and speed. He also tends to use too much power without meaning to. By contrast, if Tokine is trying to trap a monster the size of a mosquito she will make a kekkai around it exactly the size of a mosquito, with no energy wasted. She eventually gets jealous of how durable his kekkai are and learns a technique which lets her create three layers around a target at once, but using it even once leaves her exhausted. Yoshimori takes longer to learn the technique, but uses it much more effectively. (Tokine makes up for it by learning how to shape her kekkai into long "spears", something which does not require much power and which Yoshimori does not have enough control to do)[/spoiler]


Now, some of this is covered already. Wizards have a potentially limitless spell selection, and get bonus feats they can use for metamagic or to encode magic into items. Sorcerers get more spells per day and fewer restrictions on when they can use them. However, I don't feel like this is enough. The underlying archetypes can be used as a guide for further mechanics. Plus, there are some problems with the ways they've been differentiated already. For instance, wizards find it easier to Heighten or Empower spells than sorcerers (they get bonus feats, and don't increase their casting time).

I would incorporate the effects of Heighten Spell and Eschew Materials into the sorcerer's spellcasting mechanism (ie. they aren't modifying the formula of a spell when they heighten it, their formula just doesn't specify an upper limit on the energy they put into it). Empower Spell I'm a little less sure of - maybe sorcerers' spells should just be more powerful to begin with, with a Warmage Edge style ability based on Charisma (I recommend making the bonus Cha mod x spell level). A d6 Hit Die would also help.


If you have ever made a rewrite of the wizard or sorcerer classes, what ideas have you used?
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Solo

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Re: Differentiating wizards and sorcerers
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2010, 09:48:25 PM »
4 skill points/level
K. Arcana and Planes
Free Eschew Materials feat at level 1
Free metamagic feat every 5 levels
Cha to saves as a misc bonus(level 3)
Cantrips at will (level 6)
Cha to AC as a deflection bonus (level 10)
First level spells at will (level 12)
Second level spells at will (level 18)

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Endarire

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Re: Differentiating wizards and sorcerers
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2010, 04:48:55 AM »
Fundamentally, Wizards and Sorcerers do the same thing.  Each casts arcane spells and the method is flavor.  Mechanics generally favor the Wizard.
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Havok4

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Re: Differentiating wizards and sorcerers
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2010, 01:44:22 PM »
4 skill points/level
K. Arcana and Planes
Free Eschew Materials feat at level 1
Free metamagic feat every 5 levels
Cha to saves as a misc bonus(level 3)
Cantrips at will (level 6)
Cha to AC as a deflection bonus (level 10)
First level spells at will (level 12)
Second level spells at will (level 18)


Upgrades like that would likely need to be balanced by reducing something about the sorcerer's spells. Unless you are balancing against wizards in which case these changes do not seem unreasonable. It would also make it worth while to take more than 6 levels of sorcerer.

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Re: Differentiating wizards and sorcerers
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2010, 02:14:03 PM »
how bout balancing it out, by not gaining that stuff when you prestige out... 6 lvl investment in sorcerer anyone? no didnt think so.. not often at least..
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Havok4

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Re: Differentiating wizards and sorcerers
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2010, 04:19:17 PM »
I believe that is what I just said. Really you just have to balance the class against available prestige classes for sorcerers and other full casters, and in that case those additions look reasonable.

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Re: Differentiating wizards and sorcerers
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2010, 10:50:40 AM »
Well, I generally go for wiping the magic system out, replacing what the sorceror gets with something similar to psionic powers(using point based, etc), with the exception that they can manifest multiple powers in a single round(combining the actions so that only the longest action applies), but are subject to the CL point cap for each round(so a level 5 sorc would be able to shoot a 2 1 point magic missiles and a 3 point Summon Monster or he could just toss a full 5 point fireball). Learn spells by picking up spheres of power(which provides access to certain subsets of spells). Picking up a sphere multiple times gives you access to fancier spells in the sphere.

It's a bit too much work for a casual tweak though.

Another, related idea(shamelessly ripped off from Exalted), is to have 'power leaks' with sorcerors, so as they expend more points, they get to manifest secondary effects, depending on the spheres they have. Fire might give you a flame aura, which upgrades to a literal walking ball of fire, etc.
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