Author Topic: Are Core spells more powerful than all other spells put together?  (Read 6139 times)

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Phirsole

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Re: Are Core spells more powerful than all other spells put together?
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2010, 02:03:03 PM »
There are a few big broken spells outside of core... Genesis is the most obvious, but Haunt Shift (combined with Hardness), Animate Dread Warrior (when turned into a Spell Like), and True Creation (same) also qualify, for example.  Celerity isn't exactly broken, but it's super powered.

But the SpC doesn't have Haunt Shift or Genesis or most of the other nasty stuff, and is frankly far more balanced than core spells.  Sure, it's got some real gems (like Ghoul Glyph, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, and a few others) but very little in SpC matches up with something like Shapechange or Planar Binding.  Ice Assassin is a good contender I suppose.

Anyway, banning everything but core for casters is a little silly.  Frankly, you'd do better by banning core and letting them have most everything else.

JaronK

What is "CORE?" SRD includes Genesis as a "non-epic spell" in the EPIC section: http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/epicSpells.htm
I think this makes Genesis core...?

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Re: Are Core spells more powerful than all other spells put together?
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2010, 02:04:03 PM »
There are a few big broken spells outside of core... Genesis is the most obvious, but Haunt Shift (combined with Hardness), Animate Dread Warrior (when turned into a Spell Like), and True Creation (same) also qualify, for example.  Celerity isn't exactly broken, but it's super powered.

But the SpC doesn't have Haunt Shift or Genesis or most of the other nasty stuff, and is frankly far more balanced than core spells.  Sure, it's got some real gems (like Ghoul Glyph, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, and a few others) but very little in SpC matches up with something like Shapechange or Planar Binding.  Ice Assassin is a good contender I suppose.

Anyway, banning everything but core for casters is a little silly.  Frankly, you'd do better by banning core and letting them have most everything else.

JaronK

What is "CORE?" SRD includes Genesis as a "non-epic spell" in the EPIC section: http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/epicSpells.htm
I think this makes Genesis core...?
No. 'Core' refers to content published in the first three 3.5 books . The DMG, MM, and PHB. Genesis was not printed in any of these, so it's not core.
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juton

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Re: Are Core spells more powerful than all other spells put together?
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2010, 02:54:35 PM »
The thing about Genesis, if you ban core is there any way you can access your demiplane?

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Are Core spells more powerful than all other spells put together?
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2010, 02:56:42 PM »
The thing about Genesis, if you ban core is there any way you can access your demiplane?
Psionics. They have non-core versions of many of the core spells, including teleport, plane shift, polymorph, and shapechange.
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Re: Are Core spells more powerful than all other spells put together?
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2010, 03:02:21 PM »
The thing about Genesis, if you ban core is there any way you can access your demiplane?
Greater Plane Shift, SpC, Sorc/Wiz 8

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juton

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Re: Are Core spells more powerful than all other spells put together?
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2010, 03:39:09 PM »
The thing about Genesis, if you ban core is there any way you can access your demiplane?
Greater Plane Shift, SpC, Sorc/Wiz 8

I always imagined it as a hard ban. Meaning that you can't even look at the PHB, the PHB is hidden in a box buried in the bottom of the river (at least the spell section). So any spell or power that requires you to look up the PHB wouldn't work. That rules out Psionic teleportation and Greater Plane Shift since they both require the Player's hand book for information.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Are Core spells more powerful than all other spells put together?
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2010, 03:41:59 PM »
...and shapechange.
No.
Bah, yes there are differences between Gr. Metamorphosis and Shapechange, but they're mostly trivial. They still basically provide the same effects.

And no, even a "hard ban" doesn't get rid of the psionic options, as most of those have their own descriptions and differ slightly from their magic counterparts.
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JaronK

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Re: Are Core spells more powerful than all other spells put together?
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2010, 04:19:37 PM »
What is "CORE?" SRD includes Genesis as a "non-epic spell" in the EPIC section: http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/epicSpells.htm
I think this makes Genesis core...?

Core is a few specific books.  SRD is not just core... it includes Unearthed Arcana, for example.  Genesis is a non core and very nasty spell.

But the majority of the really broken spells are definitely in core (Shapechange and the rest of the Polymorph line, Contact Other Plane, Planar Binding, and so on).  It's far better to just check each spell that the player wants than to mass ban everything outside core and restrict them to some of their nastiest stuff.

JaronK

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Re: Are Core spells more powerful than all other spells put together?
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2010, 04:26:27 PM »
Hell even most of the high powered stuff is in CORE.
Grease, Haste, Divine Power, Explosive Runes, Shrink Item, Black Tentacles, Freedom of Movement, etc.

Sure theres a lot of noncore stuff, but thats ninety books vs one.
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