Author Topic: Building a Wis-based Shinobi Mage  (Read 4971 times)

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KellKheraptis

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Building a Wis-based Shinobi Mage
« on: February 18, 2010, 08:03:43 AM »
Consider this thread a thought exercise, of sorts.

Goals :
-16 BAB
-As high a CL as possible (using Ur-Priest, so this won't be obscenely high, I imagine)
-Wis to hit and damage
-Wis to AC
-If possible, Wis to Saves

Initial thoughts :
-Ur-Priest 2 at 6th and 7th character level, paving the way for PrC Paladin
-At least 8 levels of Ruby Knight Vindicator
-A level of Exotic Weapon Master would be sweet for the damage, possibly even two for unorthodox flurry
-A level of Shiba Protector for Wis to Attack and Damage
-Knowledge Devotion and Lady's Gambit for easy attack and damage boost

Code: [Select]
Reserved space for future builds as I come up with them
This thread was inspired by a 2nd edition Shinobi Mage I played from 1st level til 26th.  He was a blast to play, being even sneakier than the thief and the other ninja, and more able to frag enemies and control the battlefield than the other mage, since he was so sneaky.  While he couldn't appreciably heal, he knew the first incarnation of the synostodweomer, and ultimately knew enough travel spells to be fully self-sufficient.
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Agita

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Re: Building a Wis-based Shinobi Mage
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2010, 10:42:41 AM »
For Wis to saves, you can use PrC Paladin and take the Serenity feat (Dragon Compendium), which replaces Cha with Wis for Lay on Hands, Turning, Smite Evil, and... Divine Grace.
It's all about vision and making reality conform to your vision. By dropping a fucking house on it.

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bearsarebrown

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Re: Building a Wis-based Shinobi Mage
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2010, 01:16:02 PM »
Shooting from the hip here, didn't double check the preqs.

Swordsage 2/ Lion Totem Barbarian 1/ Paladin 4/ Ur Priest 2/ Shibia Protector 1/ RKV 7/ Ordained Champion 2/ XXX 1

No flurry, but you got Pounce and Whirling Frenzy.
Serenity is a must. Now all of your Smites + Divine Grace + TURN ATTEMPTS are based on Wis.
You get a second source for DMM from Ur Priest.
You can turn your Turn attempts into smites that deal damage based on Turn level(and you know how items can deck those).
Intuitive Strike from BoED for Wis to attack again if it's a simple weapon.
XXX needs to be full casting.
17 BAB before XXX.
CL isn't great.

Wis to AC, Saves, Attack*2, Damage, and Attack again if you smite.

Feats:
Iron Will (bought)
Combat Expertise
Spell Focus (Evil)
Serenity
Alertness
Intuitive Strike
Martial Study RETRAIN
Martial Stance RETRAIN

there is plenty of room for Knowledge Devotion/Lady's Gambit.

EDITs:
RBK entry is via feats and are later retrained. Swordsage is first for the skill points. You could move it around a bit to get high level maneuvers if needed.
Consider Shou Disciple for Flurrying.

EDIT2: Swordsage 2/ Crusader 1/ Soulknife 2/ Ur Priest 2/ Shibia Protector 1/ RKV 7/ Ordained Champion 2/ PrC Pally 2/ Soulbow 1
Then take Zen Archery instead of Intuitive Strike. And take the Ranged Smite variant.
Wisdom to attack twice, damage twice, option to smite, AC, Saves, and if you're a halfling you can get it to Initiative.
And Soulbow just screams shinobi.

EDIT3: LOL since I threw this together this morning I haven't been able to stop thinking about it.
[spoiler]
Swordsage 1/ Soulknife 2/ Swordsage +1/ Crusader 1/ Ur Priest 2/ Soulbow 1/ Shibia Protector 1/ Prc Pally 2/ Ordained Champion 2/ RKV 7

Is probably more playable and will get better maneuver progression.
[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 08:12:06 PM by bearsarebrown »

Anklebite

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Re: Building a Wis-based Shinobi Mage
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2010, 01:30:17 PM »

Intuitive Strike from BoED for Wis to attack again if it's a simple weapon.


Spell Focus (Evil)


....I can't help but feel that there is something wrong with that.
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bearsarebrown

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Re: Building a Wis-based Shinobi Mage
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2010, 01:31:40 PM »
....I can't help but feel that there is something wrong with that.

Eh, alignment shifts and stuff. Or the Ur Priest adaptation  :p

vilenatas

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Re: Building a Wis-based Shinobi Mage
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2010, 05:54:05 PM »
Maybe something with your Sword of the Arcane Order trick if prestige pally works once you qualify to give you arcane and divine spells on the Ur list.

MysticRanger4/Swordsage1/Ur2/PrestigePal2/Swordsage+1/Shiba1/RKV9

Have to get Sword of the Arcane Order feat so you need RKV to be refluffed or SAO to refluff.  Qualifying for RKV requires using method above and retraining.

NiteCyper

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Re: Building a Wis-based Shinobi Mage
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2010, 06:08:53 PM »
Persistent Hunter's Eye, Ninja, Unseen Seer, I don't remember what Cleric and Druid spellcasting is based off of, but I'll add to this later.

I forgot to add more.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2010, 11:36:43 PM by NiteCyper »
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DavidWL

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Re: Building a Wis-based Shinobi Mage
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2010, 11:43:34 PM »
Actually, Serenity for Wis instead of Cha
+ Turning
+ Burn turning for swift actions
+ cast spells as a swift action as a (Prestige) paladin (and given this is Kell, all slots)

Isn't bad at all ...

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Flay Crimsonwind

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Re: Building a Wis-based Shinobi Mage
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2010, 06:04:07 AM »
Oh dude, so wanna adapt this for my fall of sharn charrie, but..... Ur-priest makes my skin crawl..... is there a way to use it that isn't broken?

Agita

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Re: Building a Wis-based Shinobi Mage
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2010, 10:21:37 AM »
Oh dude, so wanna adapt this for my fall of sharn charrie, but..... Ur-priest makes my skin crawl..... is there a way to use it that isn't broken?
It gets ninth level spells. 'Nuff said. :P
I guess you could be a party buffer.
It's all about vision and making reality conform to your vision. By dropping a fucking house on it.

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bearsarebrown

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Re: Building a Wis-based Shinobi Mage
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2010, 12:27:48 PM »
Oh dude, so wanna adapt this for my fall of sharn charrie, but..... Ur-priest makes my skin crawl..... is there a way to use it that isn't broken?

You could switch it out for one of the many other divine spellcasting PrCs in Complete Divine. It'll only get you up to about 4th level spells them. Just make sure it's Wisdom based.

vilenatas

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Re: Building a Wis-based Shinobi Mage
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2010, 02:46:11 PM »
Oh dude, so wanna adapt this for my fall of sharn charrie, but..... Ur-priest makes my skin crawl..... is there a way to use it that isn't broken?

You could try to make it fly with a charisma based character and go with divine crusader.

MysticRng4/LionTotemBarb1/Raven Knight1/Arcane Duelist2/DivineCrusader1/PrestigePal2/Raven Knight+4/RKV5
Charisma to saves, turns, AC, Divine Crusader spells, and damage with slippers of battledancing + divine might.  You could toss a couple of domain gaining full casting prcs in to add more domains to divine crusader spells, or just choose to go high int/chr and enjoy your two domains + using Sword of the Arcane Order + Prestige Pally to cast wizard spells using Divine Crusader slots.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Building a Wis-based Shinobi Mage
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2010, 02:50:07 PM »
Serenity is a must. Now all of your Smites + Divine Grace + TURN ATTEMPTS are based on Wis.
Wait... WHAT?! Holy crap... I might have to snag that for my character in Bowen's RHoD game...
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

bearsarebrown

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Re: Building a Wis-based Shinobi Mage
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2010, 03:29:21 PM »
Wait... WHAT?! Holy crap... I might have to snag that for my character in Bowen's RHoD game...
It's probably my favorite Paladin feat. Really cuts down on MAD issues and allows for easy multiclassing with Monk themed prestiges.


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Re: Building a Wis-based Shinobi Mage
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2010, 11:49:58 PM »
Heh, Arcane Swordsage... Swiftblade.

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Re: Building a Wis-based Shinobi Mage
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2010, 12:57:56 AM »
Wait... WHAT?! Holy crap... I might have to snag that for my character in Bowen's RHoD game...
It's probably my favorite Paladin feat. Really cuts down on MAD issues and allows for easy multiclassing with Monk themed prestiges.
I never thought about the turning thing, though. That's huge... I could have dumped Charisma after all...
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

NiteCyper

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Re: Building a Wis-based Shinobi Mage
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2010, 02:28:14 AM »
Wait... WHAT?! Holy crap... I might have to snag that for my character in Bowen's RHoD game...
It's probably my favorite Paladin feat. Really cuts down on MAD issues and allows for easy multiclassing with Monk themed prestiges.
I never thought about the turning thing, though. That's huge... I could have dumped Charisma after all...
Rebuilding, retraining, Dark Chaos Feat Swap,

Shadowbane Inquisitor and that other thing. Daggerspell Mage?

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« Last Edit: February 20, 2010, 02:40:05 AM by NiteCyper »
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Re: Building a Wis-based Shinobi Mage
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2010, 06:15:06 AM »
[spoiler]
Oh dude, so wanna adapt this for my fall of sharn charrie, but..... Ur-priest makes my skin crawl..... is there a way to use it that isn't broken?

You could try to make it fly with a charisma based character and go with divine crusader.

MysticRng4/LionTotemBarb1/Raven Knight1/Arcane Duelist2/DivineCrusader1/PrestigePal2/Raven Knight+4/RKV5
Charisma to saves, turns, AC, Divine Crusader spells, and damage with slippers of battledancing + divine might.  You could toss a couple of domain gaining full casting prcs in to add more domains to divine crusader spells, or just choose to go high int/chr and enjoy your two domains + using Sword of the Arcane Order + Prestige Pally to cast wizard spells using Divine Crusader slots.
I like this, but can someone explain how the prestige pally is assumed to add the paladin spells to the character's list? It might be worded differently in the srd, but I see no reason why this works, just based upon the wording of the srd...
Quote
Spells per Day

A prestige paladin's training focuses on divine spellcasting. At every odd numbered level reached, the prestige paladin gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in whatever divine spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class.
Wouldn't that mean they're just Divine Crusader spells, not pally spells?[/spoiler]

KellKheraptis

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Re: Building a Wis-based Shinobi Mage
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2010, 07:11:04 AM »
Read the opening part about the PrC classes in there.  It states you get the respective spell list of the class in question.
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Re: Building a Wis-based Shinobi Mage
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2010, 07:16:55 AM »
Read the opening part about the PrC classes in there.  It states you get the respective spell list of the class in question.
Thaaaank you, now to accelerate the prc in the build, with SotAO and battle blessing.  :D