How would you handle the Immortal Rules Spheres of Immortality?

[Agrippa]

In D&D's BECMI rules (Basic, Expert, Campanion, Master and Immortal) there were five spheres of godhood or Immortality. They were energy, time (for lack of a better name), matter, thought and entropy. One of the basic premises was that mortal characters could advance no further than 36th level in their class. But they could embark upon a quest that allowed them to achive godhood, thus advancing another 36 levels. Note that the favored class means one class or two classes that leads best into that sphere. So good people of this forum, how would you handle these five Spheres and more interestingly, what would you rename Time.

Energy: Fire, lightning, nuclear fission and fussion and optics. Favored class magic-user (now wizard, sorcerer, psion, wilder and erudite with warmage and warlock as potential additions).

Change: Life, growth, change and mutation. The very stuff of healing, positive physical augmentation and purity. Favored classes cleric and druid (now includes psion (egoist), wilder, ardent, psychic warrior, spirit shaman, paladin, archivist, healer, crusader and sujena (sic)).

Matter: Battle, construction, iron, stability and the vey earth its self. Favored class fighter (now rogue and monk plus psychic warrior, ranger, paladin, crusader, warblade and barbarian).

Thought: Cunning and intellect with good reasoning skills. Favored classes thief and mystic (now rogue and monk plus psychic warrior, archivist, swordsage, bard, all shadowcasters, truenamers, psion (telepath or seer), erudite and wizard, perhaps even beguiler).

Entropy: Every thing from death, destruction and decay to just wanting to see the world burn. Favored class any (could be changed to dread necromancer and warlock).

[veekie]

Well, I'm not sure what you mean by how to handle the rest, but Time is simply Change, without change, time is irrelevant, the passage of time is simply marking down the changes that have happened since the previous state.

[Agrippa]

Just changed it veekee . Oh, and by handle I meant what sort of powers and atributes would you allot to each Sphere. Also, what quests and tasks would you suggest for ascending to them?

[Agrippa]

To start things let's have some rules for ascending to five Spheres. I'm already working on Matter

Energy:

Prerequisites:
Quest:
Task:

Change:

Prerequisites:
Quest:
Task:

Matter: The Path of The Master Builder

Prerequisites: Strength and Constitution 25 plus either 25 initator levels and up to 9th level Stone Dragon Maneuvers, 25 arcane or divine casting levels and 9th Conjuring (Creation) and Transmutation or 25 manifestor levels and 9th level Psychometabolism and Metacreativaty.
Quest: Must track down 15 earth elementals (or outsiders with the earth subtype) with a CR of at least 16 of whom 3 must at least have a Challenge Rating of 25. You must then challenge each one of them to individual combat, which of course precludes summoning spells by either side. The battle is not to the death, but is instead a submission match. To win either the divine aspirant or elemental must reduce his or opponent's hit point total to 25% or less. If the aspirant looses he or she must wait a year to challenge the same elemental.
Task: To achieve godhood on the Path of the Master Builder you must build a large structure of at least a mile in length, a quarter mile in width and two hundred feet high. While you may hire laborers to work on the construction project a good portion of the actual building, at least 35% of it, must be partaken by both you and the elementals you defeated and bound to your service. This said, your new building must be habitable and structurally sound.

Thought:

Prerequisites:
Quest:
Task:

Entropy:

Prerequisites:
Quest:
Task:

[Brainpiercing]

Hmm.... both quest and task seem to require GM cooperation a lot. How about making them so that you don't need that?

[Agrippa]

First, attaining godhood under this system is supposed to be difficult. Second, if no DM and player cooperation is required why have a DM in the first place? Isn't part of his or her job to act as referee. What do you want exactly?

[Brainpiercing]

First, attaining godhood under this system is supposed to be difficult. Second, if no DM and player cooperation is required why have a DM in the first place? Isn't part of his or her job to act as referee. What do you want exactly?

WELL, while certainly player/DM interaction is always necessary, there is much to be said for making player advancement largely independant of DM good will. Making things hard is fine, but requiring the GM to construct everything so that you can advance quite often means you'll have to find a way to get in his good books. That shouldn't be necessary.

Good GM/Player interaction works by an agreement on the same rules, and that's basically it. Once you are there, and the rules are good, the GM should be able to do his thing, and the player his other thing, and it should work out. If you have to beg for this and that to advance, then those are not good rules.

[Agrippa]

Then explain exactly what you see wrong.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Earth elementals are pansies.

[Agrippa]

Earth elementals are pansies.

Then take an elder earth elemental, advance it to thirty hit dice and give it Stone Dragon and Setting Sun maneuvers with an initiator level equal to its hit dice, the stances known and maneuvers both known and readied as a warblade 20 with swordsage-like recovery. Done, just like that. Now is that all Mad Linguist?

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Still has no easy way to deal with level-appropriate PCs.

[Agrippa]

Still has no easy way to deal with level-appropriate PCs.

Maybe give all earth elementals Fool's Grip as a warblade egual to their hit dice too. Besides, imagine some big, scary rock monster throwing stalagtites and stalagmites at you, then rushing in to pound your face in. I'd also double their land speed and give the improved initative. Make the Lightening Bruisers. Now its a fight.

[Brainpiercing]

Then explain exactly what you see wrong.

Alright: The quest is so-so. It requires that the player build his character so that he can FIND these elementals, or else he will have to rely on GM cooperation to give them to him.

The task is pure metagaming. There aren't any relevant game mechanics for building large structures in D&D. So basically the player COULD just say "I roll Profession or Craft, and invest a million GP and spend a year building, and now I've got my building." And only DM fiat can stop him.

[Bozwevial]

The task is pure metagaming. There aren't any relevant game mechanics for building large structures in D&D. So basically the player COULD just say "I roll Profession or Craft, and invest a million GP and spend a year building, and now I've got my building." And only DM fiat can stop him.

Or "I have a +17 Perform (string instruments) modifier."

[Brainpiercing]

The task is pure metagaming. There aren't any relevant game mechanics for building large structures in D&D. So basically the player COULD just say "I roll Profession or Craft, and invest a million GP and spend a year building, and now I've got my building." And only DM fiat can stop him.

Or "I have a +17 Perform (string instruments) modifier."

Right, Warforged Bard or something stupid like that. It says you can use it once per week, but not for how long. How about you never stop??? Dystopia, here I come, the world will drown in fricking CONSTRUCTION! That's got to be good for a campaign: Stop the evil real-estate developers conquer the world with their indestructable buildings (while the lyre's are playing).

That's.... a remarkably weird item.