Author Topic: First Gestalt character, help!  (Read 5716 times)

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Widow

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2010, 02:37:00 AM »
Hmm, maybe

Succubus 1/ Sorc 1  (BAB 1)   Versatile Spellcaster
Succubus 2/ Monk 1  (BAB 2) Iron will (Oriental Adventures offers different styles)
Succubus 3/ Sorc 2  (BAB 3)   Heighten Spell
Succubus 4/ Sorc 3  (BAB 4)
Succubus 5/ Sorc 4  (BAB 5)   
Succubus 6/ Incantatrix 1 (BAB 6)  Extend Spell, Ascetic Mage
Succubus 7/ Incantatrix 2 (BAB 7)
Succubus 8/ Incantatrix 3 (BAB 8)
Succubus 9/ Incantatrix 4 (BAB 9)  Max Spell, Empower Spell
Succubus 10/ Incantratrix 5 (BAB 10)
Succubus 11/ Incantrarix 6  (BAB 11)
Succubus 12/ Incantrarix 7  (BAB 12) Persistent Spell, Arcane Thesis Orb of Force
Cleric 1/  Incantrarix 8    (BAB 13) 
Cleric 2/ Incantrarix 9       (BAB 14)
Paladin 1/ Incantrarix 10     (BAB 15) Divine Metamagic Persist, Alternative Spell source
Paladin 2/ Fatespinner 1      (BAB 16)
Marshall 1/ Fatespinner 2    (BAB 17) Repeat Spell
Marshall 2/ Fatespinner 3    (BAB 18)
Fighter 1/ Fatespinner 4      (BAB 19) Bonus Fighter Feat
Fighter 2/ Spellsword 1       (BAB 20) Bonus Fighter Feat

If sorcerer is a favored class, then you will get no xp penalties.  If you are not using XP penalties, you can drop the two fighter levels for more marshall.

Versatile spellcaster (Races of the dragon) lets you use to lower level spell slots to cast a higher level spell.  Heighten lets you cast a spell in that slot as a spell of that level to get into incantatrix early.  If oriental adventures is not allowed, you can instead use sanctum spell which makes the spell count as one level higher than it is sometimes and pick up iron will in place of heighten spell.

Alternative spell source is a metamagic feat that lets you convert arcane spells to divine so you can divine metamagic you arcane spells.  You should have lots of turning attempts with your high Cha.  You can always drop the persistent spell chain and cleric if you wish.

Littha

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2010, 04:20:39 AM »
Taking it in that order would give me 16 BAB (only Succubus 1, 2, 4, 6, 8 and 10 have full BAB and both cleric and marshal are 3/4 only taking the best of each class not adding them together) which is fine but I wouldn't have the AC bonuses of abjurant champion.

I suppose it is something to think about. I could take the Divine Sorcerer ACF and get Divine Might from a domain which would solve all the BAB problems I could ever have.

That said with a little reorganising:

Succubus 1/ Sorc 1  (BAB 1)   Versatile Spellcaster
Succubus 2/ Sorc 2  (BAB 2)
Succubus 3/ Monk 1 (BAB 2.75)Heighten Spell, Iron will (Oriental Adventures offers different styles)
Succubus 4/ Sorc 3  (BAB 3.75)
Succubus 5/ Sorc 4  (BAB 4.25)   
Succubus 6/ Incantatrix 1 (BAB 5.25)  Extend Spell, Ascetic Mage
Succubus 7/ Incantatrix 2 (BAB 5.75)
Succubus 8/ Incantatrix 3 (BAB 7.75)
Succubus 9/ Incantatrix 4 (BAB 8.25)  Max Spell, Empower Spell
Succubus 10/ Incantratrix 5 (BAB 9.25)
Succubus 11/ Incantrarix 6  (BAB 9.75)
Succubus 12/ Incantrarix 7  (BAB 10.25) Persistent Spell, Arcane Thesis Orb of Force
Cleric 1/  Incantrarix 8    (BAB 11)
Cleric 2/ Incantrarix 9       (BAB 11.75)
Paladin 1/ Incantrarix 10     (BAB 12.75) Divine Metamagic Persist, Alternative Spell source
Paladin 2/ Fatespinner 1      (BAB 13.75)
Marshall 1/ Fatespinner 2    (BAB 14.25) Repeat Spell
Marshall 2/ Fatespinner 3    (BAB 15)
Fighter 1/ Fatespinner 4      (BAB 16) Bonus Fighter Feat
Marshall 3/ Spellsword 1       (BAB 17)

« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 04:49:51 AM by Littha »

carnivore

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2010, 08:34:44 AM »
Also i cant take warshaper, too bad as its a nice class.

Quote from: Complete Warrior
The alternate form ability (possessed by quasits, vampires, and others) is insufficient to become a warshaper.

Succubi have Change Shape, not Alternate Form....they are different, Change Shape is Superior and would qualify for Warshaper since it allows for Multiple different forms, Alternate form is usually a Single form(or fixed group).....

besides, you could still cast Polymorph since your character is a Spell caster ;)

 :D


Littha

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2010, 10:15:33 AM »
Hmm sorry about that, its the 3.0 savage progression that did that... Ill see if my DM will update it or I might be stuck with alternate form.

Widow

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2010, 04:56:31 PM »
Taking it in that order would give me 16 BAB (only Succubus 1, 2, 4, 6, 8 and 10 have full BAB and both cleric and marshal are 3/4 only taking the best of each class not adding them together) which is fine but I wouldn't have the AC bonuses of abjurant champion.

I suppose it is something to think about. I could take the Divine Sorcerer ACF and get Divine Might from a domain which would solve all the BAB problems I could ever have.

That said with a little reorganising:

Succubus 1/ Sorc 1  (BAB 1)   Versatile Spellcaster
Succubus 2/ Sorc 2  (BAB 2)
Succubus 3/ Monk 1 (BAB 2.75)Heighten Spell, Iron will (Oriental Adventures offers different styles)
Succubus 4/ Sorc 3  (BAB 3.75)
Succubus 5/ Sorc 4  (BAB 4.25)   
Succubus 6/ Incantatrix 1 (BAB 5.25)  Extend Spell, Ascetic Mage
Succubus 7/ Incantatrix 2 (BAB 5.75)
Succubus 8/ Incantatrix 3 (BAB 7.75)
Succubus 9/ Incantatrix 4 (BAB 8.25)  Max Spell, Empower Spell
Succubus 10/ Incantratrix 5 (BAB 9.25)
Succubus 11/ Incantrarix 6  (BAB 9.75)
Succubus 12/ Incantrarix 7  (BAB 10.25) Persistent Spell, Arcane Thesis Orb of Force
Cleric 1/  Incantrarix 8    (BAB 11)
Cleric 2/ Incantrarix 9       (BAB 11.75)
Paladin 1/ Incantrarix 10     (BAB 12.75) Divine Metamagic Persist, Alternative Spell source
Paladin 2/ Fatespinner 1      (BAB 13.75)
Marshall 1/ Fatespinner 2    (BAB 14.25) Repeat Spell
Marshall 2/ Fatespinner 3    (BAB 15)
Fighter 1/ Fatespinner 4      (BAB 16) Bonus Fighter Feat
Marshall 3/ Spellsword 1       (BAB 17)



Ah, you did not state you were using the fractional system for gestalt.  Normally you just take whatever the entry says you get at that level of the class.  For example if you went:

Sorc 1      / Fighter 1 (+)
Sorc 2 (+)/ Wizard 1
Sorc 3      / Wizard 2 (+)

You end up with a BAB of 3, while fractional only gives you a 2.

Also, are you ignoring multiclass xp penalties?  I assumed sorc was the favored class of the Succubus, but going 1 Monk, 1 Fighter, 2 Cleric, 2 Paladin, 3 Marshall sets you up for a 20% xp penalty once you hit level 20.  Then again, if you are not going epic it is no big deal.

I only put the fatespinner and Spellsword in the build because it did not require any feats for entry.  If you have another favorite spell progression PrC, slide it in there.  For instance if your cleric took the Spell and Rune domains, you could take Dweomerkeeper from the complete divine web enchancement.

Littha

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2010, 05:53:10 PM »
Ah, you did not state you were using the fractional system for gestalt.  Normally you just take whatever the entry says you get at that level of the class. 

Sorry I thought it was standard for gestalt characters, apparently because it is listed just under the gestalt rules. Fail on my part.

Wings of Peace

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2010, 06:16:04 AM »
Instead of muddling with all those fighter/crusader levels why not just take the feat Arcane Disciple: War Domain and persist yourself some Divine Power action?  Or am I missing something?
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 06:25:20 AM by Wings of Peace »

Littha

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2010, 03:17:00 PM »
I did actually say that a little while back, though I prefer having actual BAB in case of antimagic and the like. Plus I wouldn't know what to take instead.

Wings of Peace

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2010, 03:30:04 PM »
I did actually say that a little while back, though I prefer having actual BAB in case of antimagic and the like. Plus I wouldn't know what to take instead.

Understandable to want the real AB.  Just for the sake of mentioning it in the case of anti-magic you could just take the Initiate of Mystra feat since you're tapping into Cleric levels anyways.  At that point you can also just surround yourself for protection in an anti-magic field.

Jade Phoenix Mage is a nice option if you're gishing as well since it give full BaB progression and no caster level loss as I recall.

An additional option if you have access to the spells in the Spell Compendium would be persistent Wraithstrike which turns all of your melee attack into melee touch attacks.  Couple that with the Mighty Wallop line of spells and you'll begin to be able to do some reasonable damage with the right weapon.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 03:40:46 PM by Wings of Peace »

snakeman830

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2010, 03:53:23 PM »
Jade Pheonix Mage loses two caster levels.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

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Littha

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2010, 04:08:53 PM »
Also there is the issue with dual progression classes in gestalt characters.


CantripN

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2010, 04:34:30 PM »
My Sorcerer's Spell List at 20th (he's house-ruled) to have spells like a Favored Soul +1, so that's not the same (plus, he's Good...). Still, it should help picking spells:

Spells Known (6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/5/4 Known, Stalwart Sorcerer, SLA, Draconic Pact (9th), Extra Spell (Inner Beauty), Extra Spell (Snowsong), Extra Spell (Nixie's Grace), Domain Access (Destiny + Customize Domain), Initiate of Mystra (Anyspell, Greater Anyspell), Cantrip's Runestaff (Primal Hunter, Primal Instinct, XXX):
1st - True Strike, True Casting, Persistant Blade, Blade of Blood, Hoard Gullet, Vision of Glory.
2nd - Wraithstrike, Heroics, Whispercast, Glitterdust, Primal Hunter, Divine Insight, Primal Hunter.
3rd - Haste, Dragonskin, Primal Instincts, Anyspell, Delay Death, Heart of Water, Primal Instinct.
4th - Thunderlance, Ice Shield, Ruin Delver's Fortune, Greater Mirror Image, Mark of the Enlightened Soul, Mass Resurgence, Inner Beauty.
5th - Arcane Fusion, Dragonsight, Temporal Repair, Greater Enlarge Person, Teleport, Surge of Fortune.
6th - Antimagic Field, Greater Anticipate Teleportation, Eyes of the Oracle, Freezing Fog, Greater Anyspell, Warp Destiny, Nixie's Grace, Snowsong.
7th - Arcane Spellsurge, Reverse Gravity, Elemental Body, Energy Absorption, Stored Lightning Bolt, Fortunate Fate.
8th - Greater Arcane Fusion, Ghostform, Mystic Shield, Superior Invisibility, Foresight.
9th - Replicate Casting, Absorption, Choose Destiny, XXX, Stalwart Sorcerer
SLAs: Spell Turning 1/day, Repulsion 3/day, Lesser Globe of Invulnerability 3/day, Dispel Magic 3/day, Shield 3/day.

In your case, be sure to take Pleasure Domain with your Cleric levels, as well as Travel Devotion.

Feel free to peruse the rest of it for more tips: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6044.msg200017#msg200017
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 04:39:07 PM by CantripN »
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Wings of Peace

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2010, 05:06:58 PM »
Also there is the issue with dual progression classes in gestalt characters.



That's up to your dm really.  The rule as written 'suggests' that they not be allowed but does not openly ban them.

Littha

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2010, 05:15:11 PM »
I'm actually looking into fiend of possession at the minute, seeing all the talk about it on the board, plus I could enter it as my 4th level...

One question about the control object ability; If I possess a suit of armor can I move it using that? If so how would possessing a suit of Colossal Adamantine plate work? Armor obviously has inherent mobility as it has moving parts...

Widow

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2010, 11:23:13 AM »
I'm actually looking into fiend of possession at the minute, seeing all the talk about it on the board, plus I could enter it as my 4th level...

One question about the control object ability; If I possess a suit of armor can I move it using that? If so how would possessing a suit of Colossal Adamantine plate work? Armor obviously has inherent mobility as it has moving parts...

I am not sure how that would end up working.  You are probably better of using the 4th level power that makes the armor an animated object.  You retain the hardness of the armor, but use the antimated object stats. From the other thread:

Oh, and if you really want to mess with people.  Give your meat sac armor made of Obdurium (Stronghold builder's guide).  This has a hardness of 30 with 60 Hit points per inch.  If you have access to dragon mag, get an ounce of pure ore for this stuff.  Pure ore is the same metal but it is mined on the plane of Earth.  It doubles hardness and HP.  If you are in a greyhawk game, alloy it with Oerthblood.  This gives it the armor DR/-, but more importantly doubles hardness and hp again.  This gets you to 120 hardness with 240HP per inch.  You can still had augment crystals for +10 hardness, and more from the hardness spell.  Lets say that puts you at a hardness of 140+ the enhancement bonus of the armor.  Now go read the rules on hardness and animated objects.  Ha, hardness works against everything including elemental spell damage.  You only get so many HP, but you keep the original items Hardness.  Have a make whole or similar repair spell on hand if anything every damages you.

I would get that armor the blueshine property so it is immune to rust and acid damage.  I am glad the FoP is getting all this love.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2010, 11:25:07 AM by Widow »