Author Topic: First Gestalt character, help!  (Read 5717 times)

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Littha

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First Gestalt character, help!
« on: February 15, 2010, 09:39:13 PM »
Having started about my 4th PbP campagn recently i had to make a Gestalt character for the first time and this is what i ended up with:

Succubus 1/Sorcerer (Metamagic Specialist) 1
Succubus 2/Sorcerer 2
Succubus 3/Fighter 1
Succubus 4/Sorcerer 3
Succubus 5/Spellsword 1
Succubus 6/Sorcerer 4
Succubus 7/Abjurant Champion 1
Succubus 8/Incantatrix 1
Succubus 9/Abjurant Champion 2
Succubus 10/Incantatrix 2
Succubus 11/Abjurant Champion 3
Succubus 12/Abjurant Champion 4
Crusader 1/Incantatrix 3
Crusader 2/Incantatrix 4
Crusader 3/Incantatrix 5
Crusader 4/Incantatrix 6
Crusader 5/Incantatrix 7
Crusader 6/Incantatrix 8
Crusader 7/Incantatrix 9
Crusader 8/Incantatrix 10

Feats:
1: Combat Casting
3: Smiting Spell
(f)Bonus: Weapon Finesse
6: Iron Will
(i)Bonus:
9:
12:
(f)Bonus:
(i)Bonus:
15:
(i)Bonus:
18:
(i)Bonus:

I need help selecting the other feats and probably a better class than Crusader for the last 8 levels.
I think I have BAB 20 and 19th level casting with -10% spell failure by only taking sorcerer levels at the same as Succubus racial hit dice: possible levels for sorcerer or none full BAB classes: 1 2 4 6 8 10. Need a full BAB class where crusader is now that cant be a prestige class...

starting stats are:
Str    10   
Dex   20 
Con   14   
Int    16   
Wis   10   
Chr   24
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 09:40:48 PM by Littha »

snakeman830

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2010, 09:45:10 PM »
It looks as though you're going for a gish build.  Crusader levels don't hurt this, but I don't think more Fighter levels could hurt either.  Bonus feats are always handy.  Crusader will greatly help your durability, at the very least, as well as give you real options once you've buffed up.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

bearsarebrown

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2010, 09:52:33 PM »
Buy Iron Will from Outuyh Hole.
Drop the fighter level unless you have a really good reason. Your Outsider type is already granting Martial Weapon Prof.
Drop some Crusader level for Paladin 2.
Flip Dex and Con. Your AC will be great anyways with AC and Greater Luminous Armor + Shield being persisted. (17+5= +23 AC and a -4 to opponents attack) And nearly everything attacks your HP. A lot of things ignore AC.
Ditch Spellsword. You're not wearing armor, why else would you go Abjurant Champion?
Extend/Persist are obvious feat choices for Incantatrix.
Do Succubus get any sweet SLAs? If so, consider Supernatural Transformation to make then (Su).

IMO
Sorc 5/Abjurant Champion 5/Incancatrix 10 (remember that your Outsider HD are full BAB and grant Martial prof)
Paladin 2/Cha to Y bonus X/Crusader X

snakeman830

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2010, 10:12:03 PM »
Monk 1 with Ascetic Mage, perhaps?  Add that Cha bonus to your AC.  It should be high enough as is, but it won't hurt you much, if at all.  Maybe a Marshall dip would be better.  Pick up Motivate Dexterity to add your Cha bonus to your and allies initiative (and all Dex-based skill checks).  Help the entire party with one dip.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

Littha

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2010, 10:18:40 PM »
I have Spellsword because i can take it as my 5th level and it has +1 BAB and a caster level. It is in all ways better than taking another sorcerer level. First fighter level is there to qualify for this but i suppose i could take paladin 1 there instead as all i really need from this level is heavy armor proficiency.

Succubus SLAs:
At Will: Clairvoyance, Darkness, Desecrate, Detect Good, Detect thoughts, Doom, Suggestion, Charm Monster, Etherial Jaunt and Greater Teleport.
Once per day: Unholy Blight.

total racial bonuses at level 12
STR   +2
DEX   +2
CON   +2
INT   +6
WIS    +4
CHA   +16

Will swap CON and DEX over as suggested and grab paladin instead of fighter but it will leave me without weapon finesse until level 9


bearsarebrown

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2010, 10:26:25 PM »
If Spellsword is better then it's better. don't forget that your Outsider HD are counted for Gestalt Purposes. they have all good saves, full BAB, 8 skills and are a d8. They're great fucking HD.

Fighter level isn't worth the casting drop. Take the paladin level on the succubus side.

Want to start getting a little silly on your non-casting side?
Take Battledancer 1 from Dragon Magazine Compendium. This grants Cha to AC and IUS. Then take Ascetic Mage and get Cha to AC again.
Take Paladin 2 for the saves.
Take Marshall 1 to get Cha to breaking SR.
Then take some Crusader levels.

Littha

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2010, 10:45:38 PM »
so more:
Succubus 1/Sorcerer (Metamagic Specialist) 1
Succubus 2/Sorcerer 2
Succubus 3/Sorcerer 3
Succubus 4/Sorcerer 4
Succubus 5/Sorcerer 5
Succubus 6/Sorcerer 6
Succubus 7/Abjurant Champion 1
Succubus 8/Incantatrix 1
Succubus 9/Abjurant Champion 2
Succubus 10/Incantatrix 2
Succubus 11/Abjurant Champion 3
Succubus 12/Abjurant Champion 4
Marshall 1/Incantatrix 3
Paladin 1/Incantatrix 4
Paladin 2/Incantatrix 5
Monk 1/Incantatrix 6
Crusader 1/Incantatrix 7
Crusader 2/Incantatrix 8
Crusader 3/Incantatrix 9
Crusader 4/Incantatrix 10

Lose 1 BAB from dropping fighter but gain a caster level, lose 1 BAB for monk:
18 BAB, CL 20.
CHA to Saves, Int and AC

Outsider HD already taken into account in BAB and saves calculations.
Prefer not to take battledancer as the magazine compendium is one of the few things I don't have...
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 10:51:25 PM by Littha »

bearsarebrown

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2010, 10:52:15 PM »
Why not Sorc 5/Abjurant 1? Does the Succubus only have 4HD?

Littha

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2010, 10:56:17 PM »
6 at 1 2 4 6 8 10 as its a savage progression.

As such those are levels I would take none full BAB classes on if i have to.

current AC at level 20 stands at:
10+(Monk Bonus) + Natural Armor + Greater Luminous Armor(+ Abjurant Champion Level) + Shield(+ Abjurant Champion Level)
so:
10+(15)+9+8(+4)+4(+4)
Which is AC 56 if you assume CHA 44 (18+16+5(enhance)+5 (level))
Will also give me 3 bonus 9th level spells...

i may have trouble casting Greater Luminous armor or qualifying for paladin as a succubus though i can take the UA paladin variants.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 12:08:44 AM by Littha »

Endarire

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2010, 03:39:46 AM »
Hood has sections on gestalts and gishes.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

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Littha

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2010, 04:20:55 AM »
Unfortunately as my race is succubus I can't qualify for magic in the blood. Thanks for trying though.

I am starting at level 5 so i have written out my spells known and want critique:

first build (Fighter and Spellsword)
0:6
Prestidigitation
Detect Magic
Open/Close
Touch of Fatigue
Ghost Sound
Dancing Lights

1:3
Shield
Silent Image
Benign Transposition

2:1
Dance of Ruin

Second Build: All Sorcerer
0:6
Prestidigitation
Detect Magic
Open/Close
Touch of Fatigue
Ghost Sound
Dancing Lights

1:4
Shield
Silent Image
Benign Transposition
Identify

2:2
Dance of Ruin
Glitterdust
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 08:08:05 AM by Littha »

jolt

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2010, 10:01:10 AM »
Buy Iron Will from Outuyh Hole.

I'm sorry but I have no idea what this is, can you explain it please?

EDIT: Ok I found it and for the people who had the same question as me,

It's called Otyugh Hole and it's located in Complete Scoundrel.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 10:09:34 AM by jolt »

snakeman830

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2010, 12:53:30 PM »
Take Marshall 1 to get Cha to breaking SR.
Motivate Dexterity is better.  Adding your Cha to Initiative and other Dex checks for you and your party is far better than boosting his chances of beating a joke.  It's much better to just pick up items or feats that boost caster level and/or penetration checks.  You need a rather small boost to routinely beat the SR of anything level appropriate, especially if you take Arcane Mastery (take 10 on caster level checks).  Not to mention the fact a lot of the spells he's casting will target himself and/or party members, so SR is a nonissue anyway.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

bearsarebrown

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2010, 01:32:47 PM »
@snakeman
I think you're right. I agree, Dexterity would be better then SR.

carnivore

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2010, 05:56:06 PM »
i like it.... but would make these changes:

Succubus 1/Sorcerer (Metamagic Specialist) 1
Succubus 2/Sorcerer 2
Succubus 3/Sorcerer 3
Succubus 4/Sorcerer 4
Succubus 5/Sorcerer 5
Succubus 6/Sorcerer 6
Succubus 7/Abjurant Champion 1
Succubus 8/Incantatrix 1
Succubus 9/Abjurant Champion 2
Succubus 10/Incantatrix 2
Succubus 11/Abjurant Champion 3
Succubus 12/Abjurant Champion 4
Marshall 1/Incantatrix 3
Paladin 1/Incantatrix 4
Paladin 2/Incantatrix 5
Monk 1/Incantatrix 6
Marshall 2/Incantatrix 7
Marshall 3/Incantatrix 8
Warshaper 1/Incantatrix 9
Warshaper 2/Incantatrix 10

Lose 1 BAB from dropping fighter but gain a caster level, lose 1 BAB for monk:
18 BAB, CL 20.
CHA to Saves, Int and AC

get to use Cha for boost to Dex and Cha(marshal Auras: Motivate Dex, and Cha) and get a Major Aura.... pick a Draconic Aura(Vigor)... then take the feat: Dragon Touched(gives you Dragonblooded.. and your Vigor Aura will give Fast Healing 4, also.... since you will be in some other form most of the time... get additional boost to Unarmed Combat(+1 Die size Unarmed Strike), immunity to Critical Hits & being Stunned, +4 Str and Con
 if you took the feats:

Superior Unarmed Strike
Improved Natural Attack(unarmed Strike)

2d6 + 2 size boosts @ medium size for unarmed Strike

 :D
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 05:59:07 PM by carnivore »

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2010, 05:56:47 PM »
I think there was something in unapproachable east which let you qualify for regional feats by taking two ranks in knowledge:local for their region.
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carnivore

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2010, 06:00:53 PM »
Magic in the Blood has both a Region and Race requirement .... so it is not valid unless you can fullfill the racial part also

 :D

Littha

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2010, 12:35:10 AM »
Also i cant take warshaper, too bad as its a nice class.

Quote from: Complete Warrior
The alternate form ability (possessed by quasits, vampires, and others) is insufficient to become a warshaper.

Widow

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Re: First Gestalt character, help!
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2010, 01:21:28 AM »
i may have trouble casting Greater Luminous armor or qualifying for paladin as a succubus though i can take the UA paladin variants.