Author Topic: Theurgish Build Thoughts.  (Read 4283 times)

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Bill Bisco: Eloquent Elf

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Theurgish Build Thoughts.
« on: February 14, 2010, 05:38:13 PM »
I was thinking about one of the Cleric's under-utlized Tricks, namely that of the Spell Domain Cleric using Anyspell to be able to cast Arcane Spells and Qualify for Mystic Theurge.

Lvl 1   Bard 1   Precocious Apprentice
Lvl 2   Cleric 1
Lvl 3   Cleric 2 Heighten Spell
Lvl 4   Mystic Theurge 1
Lvl 5   Mystic Theurge 2
Lvl 6   Mystic Theurge 3
Lvl 7   Mystic Theurge 4
Lvl 8   Mystic Theurge 5
Lvl 9   Mystic Theurge 6
Lvl 10 Mystic Theurge 7
Lvl 11 Sublime Chord 1
Lvl 12 Mystic Theurge 8
Lvl 13 Mystic Theurge 9
Lvl 14 Mystic Theurge 10
Lvl 15 Arcane Hierophant 1
Lvl 16 Arcane Hierophant 2
Lvl 17 Arcane Hierophant 3
Lvl 18 Arcane Hierophant 4
Lvl 19 Arcane Hierophant 5
Lvl 20 Arcane Hierophant 6

The above Build nabs Bard CL 8, Cleric CL 18, and Sublime Chord CL 11 (or higher depending on DM).  It requires the DM to allow Bamboo Spirit Folk to qualify.

Lvl 1   Cleric 1
Lvl 2   Cleric 2
Lvl 3   Cleric 3
Lvl 4   Cleric 4
Lvl 5   Warlock 1
Lvl 6   Eldritch Disciple 1
Lvl 7   Eldritch Disciple 2
Lvl 8   Eldritch Disciple 3
Lvl 9   Eldritch Disciple 4
Lvl 10 Eldritch Disciple 5
Lvl 11 Eldritch Disciple 6
Lvl 12 Eldritch Disciple 7
Lvl 13 Eldritch Disciple 8
Lvl 14 Eldritch Disciple 9
Lvl 15 Eldritch Disciple 10
Lvl 16 Mystic Theurge 1
Lvl 17 Mystic Theurge 2
Lvl 18 Mystic Theurge 3
Lvl 19 Mystic Theurge 4
Lvl 20 Mystic Theurge 5

The above Build nabs Cleric CL 18, Warlock CL 16 which is enough for a Dark Invocation at level 20.

The problem with these builds is that they both lose 2 Caster Levels for Cleric.  However, if one exchanged Bard for Wizard and did not take Sublime Chord

Lvl 1   Wizard 1   Precocious Apprentice
Lvl 2   Cleric 1
Lvl 3   Cleric 2 Heighten Spell
Lvl 4   Mystic Theurge 1
Lvl 5   Mystic Theurge 2
Lvl 6   Mystic Theurge 3
Lvl 7   Mystic Theurge 4
Lvl 8   Mystic Theurge 5
Lvl 9   Mystic Theurge 6
Lvl 10 Mystic Theurge 7
Lvl 11 Mystic Theurge 8
Lvl 12 Mystic Theurge 9
Lvl 13 Mystic Theurge 10
Lvl 14 Arcane Hierophant 1
Lvl 15 Arcane Hierophant 2
Lvl 16 Arcane Hierophant 3
Lvl 17 Arcane Hierophant 4
Lvl 18 Arcane Hierophant 5
Lvl 19 Arcane Hierophant 6
Lvl 20 Arcane Hierophant 7

This would net Cleric CL 19 and Wizard CL 18.   I'm curious if this build is superior to the Sublime Chord one or not, and if this is as good as it gets.

symisin

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Re: Theurgish Build Thoughts.
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2010, 07:27:30 PM »
how are you planning on getting the trackless step class feature for the Arcane Hierophant?

RelentlessImp

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Re: Theurgish Build Thoughts.
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2010, 07:53:55 PM »
how are you planning on getting the trackless step class feature for the Arcane Hierophant?

Bamboo Spirit Folk (OA) get Trackless Step as a racial ability.
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symisin

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Re: Theurgish Build Thoughts.
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2010, 10:16:47 PM »
the requirement says "as a class ability" not as a racial ability so...

Bill Bisco: Eloquent Elf

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Re: Theurgish Build Thoughts.
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2010, 11:50:22 PM »
You are correct, it would require DM fiat to allow Bamboo Spirit Folk to work.

symisin

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Re: Theurgish Build Thoughts.
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2010, 05:33:49 PM »
after doing some looking i came across this quote:

"I asked Skip Williams whether the original intention was to have woodland stride as the class feature requirement for the arcane hierophant instead of trackless step, so rangers can qualify as the descriptive text strongly suggest, and he said:"

"Woodland Stride is certainly what I *meant* to write, Not sure how Trackless Step got in there instead."

http://paizo.com/dragon/messageboards/generalDiscussion/questForRacesOfTheWildArcaneHierophantErrata

now looking at the description of the standard entry classes it says that druid is the main one with ranger as the second one, with that said woodland stride would make a lot more sense that trackless step.  imo i think there was supposed to be an errata but was never published and unfortunately there will never be one, but since this makes so much more sense i would use it

McPoyo

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Re: Theurgish Build Thoughts.
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2010, 12:06:25 PM »
after doing some looking i came across this quote:

"I asked Skip Williams whether the original intention was to have woodland stride as the class feature requirement for the arcane hierophant instead of trackless step, so rangers can qualify as the descriptive text strongly suggest, and he said:"

"Woodland Stride is certainly what I *meant* to write, Not sure how Trackless Step got in there instead."

http://paizo.com/dragon/messageboards/generalDiscussion/questForRacesOfTheWildArcaneHierophantErrata

now looking at the description of the standard entry classes it says that druid is the main one with ranger as the second one, with that said woodland stride would make a lot more sense that trackless step.  imo i think there was supposed to be an errata but was never published and unfortunately there will never be one, but since this makes so much more sense i would use it
At which point, there are three items in the MIC that grant trackless step. Going on the "Ring of evasion lets you fulfill evasion prc reqs", you could also do it the same way using any of the three pairs of boots that do it.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

symisin

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Re: Theurgish Build Thoughts.
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2010, 03:07:06 PM »
once again i get back to the point of the trackless step (woodland stride) being a class requirement for the Arcane Hierophant.  I've never played a campaign that let you use magic items as prerequisites for a prc because if you loose the item you no longer have the abilities needed to have the prc, and ive never seen anything that says you can even do it.

McPoyo

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Re: Theurgish Build Thoughts.
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2010, 03:09:16 PM »
FAQ says it about evasion.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

symisin

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Re: Theurgish Build Thoughts.
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2010, 03:16:29 PM »
FAQ says it about evasion.

what FAQ are you referring to?

McPoyo

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Re: Theurgish Build Thoughts.
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2010, 03:23:28 PM »
FAQ says it about evasion.

what FAQ are you referring to?
I was referring to the general faq, but apparently I was once again thinking of something different. This is not my day. Anyone else have the reference?
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Theurgish Build Thoughts.
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2010, 03:38:10 PM »
FAQ says it about evasion.

what FAQ are you referring to?
I was referring to the general faq, but apparently I was once again thinking of something different. This is not my day. Anyone else have the reference?
Complete Warrior, pg. 16 (IIRC).
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

McPoyo

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Re: Theurgish Build Thoughts.
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2010, 03:39:30 PM »
FAQ says it about evasion.

what FAQ are you referring to?
I was referring to the general faq, but apparently I was once again thinking of something different. This is not my day. Anyone else have the reference?
Complete Warrior, pg. 16 (IIRC).
Thank you :)
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

symisin

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Re: Theurgish Build Thoughts.
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2010, 03:59:23 PM »
i bow to your knowledge.  the boots would work if you use trackless step but as i said before it was intended to be woodland stride.  so depending on your view you could argue both sides.  in regards to the spirit folk i think its the same thing, that you could argue both sides.  if anyone has any more info on any of the requirements debate on whats legal and whats not I'd love to hear it.