Author Topic: Building a "Pretty" Sorceress  (Read 18982 times)

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Ruam

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Re: Building a "Pretty" Sorceress
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2010, 12:59:31 PM »
I think my biggest objection there would be...

What/who the hell is River Tan?

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Re: Building a "Pretty" Sorceress
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2010, 01:00:19 PM »
I think my biggest objection there would be...

What/who the hell is River Tan?

I had to look it up - I've seen Firefly, but I didn't know River's last name was Tam :P  

Honestly, River's not even that pretty, and in the series she doesn't seem that overpowered (unlike the movie).  

And as far as Firefly characters goes, this sorcerer would clearly be more like Inara ;)

(Also, I second the suggestion for a beguiler - a set spell list per level that's already themed to be pretty and charming).

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Re: Building a "Pretty" Sorceress
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2010, 01:05:03 PM »

@RobyPants:
Quote from: SRD
physical attractiveness.

A thing to remember is that physical attractiveness can vary from species to species, which is why mind flayers and the like have high charisma even while looking horrible.

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Re: Building a "Pretty" Sorceress
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2010, 01:07:10 PM »
@RobyPants:
Quote from: SRD
physical attractiveness.
Just because they print it doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. ;)

In all seriousness, the whole Cha = pretty thing is just another version of the Stromwind Fallacy (or really the False Dilemma Fallacy).  This is being viewed as one axis, when it's really two axes.  Think of it as four quadrants.  You can be pretty or not.  You can also be persuasive or not.  These two things are not dependent on each other, and the notion that they are can be disproved by counter examples:

Pretty + Persuasive: Sarah Palin (like her or not, she's good looking and (some) people like to listen to her)
Pretty + Not Persuasive: Any ditzy person given a microphone at a pageant.
Not Pretty + Persuasive: Dragons, Mind Flayers, Beholdrs, Hitler (he did talk an entire country into doing some weird stuff)
Not Pretty + Not Persuasive: Zombies.

So, I understand the SRD and PHB say that, but they're demonstrably wrong.  Let's not forget the alignment system and corresponding explanations printed in the books. ;)
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Agita

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Re: Building a "Pretty" Sorceress
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2010, 01:10:28 PM »
Pretty + Persuasive: Sarah Palin (like her or not, she's good looking and (some) people like to listen to her)
I wouldn't hit her with anything other than a baseball bat or a lead pipe. Literal ones, that is.
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Re: Building a "Pretty" Sorceress
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2010, 01:15:56 PM »
Robby I agree it is a fallacy but it is more than a tangent correlation within the rules. Now if they want to bring in the Book of softcore porn erotic fantasy, then that imports rules for a separate stat for appearance. But until they really do make a separate stat for it pretty=CHA. In our games we normally do it as a separate stat that the play can select with a max determined by one of a series of generation methods; base of 10 +d10 , average of your physical stats (athletes are sexy logic), d20 roll, and just plain old you pick but being too pretty can cause you some issues such as being kidnapped and sold to a harem.
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Re: Building a "Pretty" Sorceress
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2010, 01:17:56 PM »
Pretty + Persuasive: Sarah Palin (like her or not, she's good looking and (some) people like to listen to her)
I wouldn't hit her with anything other than a baseball bat or a lead pipe. Literal ones, that is.

Personally I don't find her the least bit attractive or pretty, either.  Same with Anne Coultier.  Perhaps it's the "I'm further right than a Nazi" that's a turn-off to a neo-anarchist :D  And don't waste the pipe on either of them...go for something more proverbial, such as "thrown under the bus?"  However, +1 on Hitler having an amazing Charisma.  And also, you might look to music/movie stars for examples.  After all, who doesn't know the name Elvis Presley, almost anywhere in the world, and in his hey-day, he probably could have had any woman he wanted.

And from the music side of things, it's hard to top Rob Halford for raw power in stage presence.  The man commands a stadium, even without a mic.  I guess the female equivalent would be Stevie Nicks or Lita Ford, both of which hit the nail on the head for the first classification (IMO at least, as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and especially Lita Ford in her prime).
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Re: Building a "Pretty" Sorceress
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2010, 01:25:52 PM »
I disagree with athletes=sexy. Big honking muscles are a turn-off for me.

I think we can all agree on the fallacy bit, though. I once made a Half-Orc Druid with 8 Str and 8 Dex. He was still huge, and still had muscles like a full orc, but he was as strong as your average halfling. :D

go for something more proverbial, such as "thrown under the bus?" 
Why bother with icasms? :P
But then again, she might make a nasty stain on the bus...
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Re: Building a "Pretty" Sorceress
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2010, 01:30:02 PM »
@Kell
don't want to derail the thread, but isn't the far right pretty close to anarchism on economical issues? I don't see much of a difference between anarchism and libertarianism there, as both would realistically lead to a system where might is right
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Re: Building a "Pretty" Sorceress
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2010, 02:04:42 PM »
I'd actually recommend bard over sorceress for a new player.

Even an un-optimized bard is a great addition to any party, as in combat they make everyone else around them better.  They can do all kinds of mundane and magical things without being overwhelmed by excessive paperwork (definitely have someone sitting next to her to help her manage spells).


In addition to being the pretty one, she gets to be the center of attention if you let her be the party face.

The hardest part will be on the DM, who has to find ways to make the new player feel comfortable and useful and have her share of the spotlight.  No matter what, make sure she fulfills a function that no one else can do.

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Re: Building a "Pretty" Sorceress
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2010, 02:05:44 PM »
What about a succubus? :p
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Re: Building a "Pretty" Sorceress
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2010, 02:29:30 PM »
or a pixie?
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Re: Building a "Pretty" Sorceress
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2010, 02:34:39 PM »
don't want to derail the thread, but isn't the far right pretty close to anarchism on economical issues? I don't see much of a difference between anarchism and libertarianism there, as both would realistically lead to a system where might is right

The distinction between Anarchism and Libertarianism lies in the fact that the latter still acknowledges the necessity for some kind of administrative governmental body/institution to protect people's right to self-determination and to exercise free will while the former believes in the abolition of government, seeing it as an impediment to these principles.

As with the whole Charisma = Pretty, I agree that it is an overly simplified measure. However, it's just too much trouble to try and quantify every aspect of a person, hence their lobbing one's force of personality along with their physical appearance into a single heading. I mean, how exactly does being attractive make one better at casting spells or why doesn't someone's intelligence have greater weight in social interactions like diplomacy? My attitude toward it is simple "if it it is reconcilable in the present instance then just ignore it and acknowledge the limitations of the system".

Anyway, going back on topic.

I checked out Unseelie Fey and it works for the build, especially the Vernal Touch special ability, give her a decent at will support option. Butterfly wings seem apt given that my interpretation that pretty equates to crapping out rainbows at the rate of a bad case of diarrhea. Human works well. Even thinking of giving her some Ruathar levels for an elven touch. It doesn't offer much but the bump to saves and BAB is good.

About the Half-Fey and Pixie, starting level's at ECL 5. Was actually considering giving her the Half-Nymph template if it weren't a +2 LA. Considering house-ruling it so that it only grants a +4 Cha and +2 Wis (and not the additional bump of +2 Dex and Int) to justify bringing it down to +1 LA. That Awesome Beauty ability seems apt for the build

@ On Swanmay and Beloved of Valarian: both would entail losing caster levels and I would prefer keeping it parallel to her ECL. Less rule elaboration on our part. :D

I'd actually recommend bard over sorceress for a new player.

Even an un-optimized bard is a great addition to any party, as in combat they make everyone else around them better.  They can do all kinds of mundane and magical things without being overwhelmed by excessive paperwork (definitely have someone sitting next to her to help her manage spells).


In addition to being the pretty one, she gets to be the center of attention if you let her be the party face.

The hardest part will be on the DM, who has to find ways to make the new player feel comfortable and useful and have her share of the spotlight.  No matter what, make sure she fulfills a function that no one else can do.

@ Bards: Was actually thinking of giving her levels in Heartfire Fanner. That way she'd get some awesome alternative Bardic Music abilities. Problem is, the melee "Leader" of the party is already playing as an optimized one that is easily at least doubly powerful compared to anything this build could hope to achieve. Also, Prestige Bard loses a caster level at first level. Would it be better to go Bard/Sublime Chord instead? Only problem is that it'll end up having fewer spell slots and spells known than a normal sorceress.

Also, suppose I applied two templates and let her take IotSfV and Ruathar, is it really necessary to sneak in another level?

@ Uniporns: Uniporns? Am I missing something?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2010, 02:37:59 PM by fun_at_funerals »
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Re: Building a "Pretty" Sorceress
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2010, 02:43:34 PM »
@ Uniporns: Uniporns? Am I missing something?
Unicorns have phallic horns and like virgins. Need I say more?
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Re: Building a "Pretty" Sorceress
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2010, 03:25:02 PM »
Sorry, fun_at_funerals.  :embarrassed
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Re: Building a "Pretty" Sorceress
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2010, 03:36:55 PM »
explain to her why tying monsters up is better than blasting, and let her go wild.
Or show her why trying up is better...

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Re: Building a "Pretty" Sorceress
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2010, 03:43:30 PM »
Sorry, fun_at_funerals.  :embarrassed

Lol, no problem.

How about a fey-unisuccubusporn?

Wow, that really sounds disgusting and erotic at the same time.
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Re: Building a "Pretty" Sorceress
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2010, 03:54:29 PM »
Oh crap, we have a furry! KILL IT WITH FIRE!  :p
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Re: Building a "Pretty" Sorceress
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2010, 04:02:10 PM »
We've got at least two here on the min-max boards. Get with the times, man.

Anyway, the majority of the word fey-unisuccubusporn isn't fur-related, so I see no problem.

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Re: Building a "Pretty" Sorceress
« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2010, 04:02:50 PM »
I'm here to pimp my second favorite PrC in Dragon Magizine.

Thrall of Malcanthet! 7/10 spell casting, +4 untyped Cha, turn into Succubus 1/day for a +16 Cha and wings, Detect Thoughts gaze, kisses bestows negative level, two free EWP, 6 skills, +8 to social skills.

7/10 casting is hard for a Sorceress. But there is a good chance she's not level 20 if she is new to the game.

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